That Darn sight Oscillation what helps?

Broz

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OK, I need some help from better shooters than I. I get quite a bit of "sight Oscillation" and find myself trying to shoot whn the pin crosses the target. I have the new Option Archery "Quivilizer" (a quiver that mounts so it doubles as a stabilizer and sticks way out front) I am noticing that I shoot tighter groups when I take it off. I am assuming since most target shooters use long "stabilizers" I must be doing something wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.

Jeff

 

dah605

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I've had "fun" going back and forth between my relatively heavy target bow (Hoyt Prevail with ~4 ounces on the end of a 30" stabilizer, along with 8 ounces on the offset 10" back bar) and my hunting bow (Hoyt RX-1) that has an 8" stabilizer. I ended up putting a 4 ounce weight on the RX-1 to get the balance where I wanted it. You could see if it is possible to add weight to the end of the quivalizer.

One of the considerations with the quivalizer is that has more surface area than a target stabilizer and therefore has more potential for wind deflection. Are you getting any rattles or loud vibration noises?

-David

I can't imagine hunting with the 30" stabilizer... Even for the Total Archery Challenge, my daughter will be replacing her long one with my 10" target back bar to keep the balance.
 

Broz

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I found I was having to apply pressure with my left thumb to keep the bow level. So I added a 4" stabilizer for weight to the left side of the bow. I also found I shot it better with the quivilizer removed. (not wind related) I took that as an indication of too heavy in front. So I moved the arrow cup back a few inches to add a small amount of rear weight and moved my draw stop in one hole to keep a little more pressure on my left hand at full draw. This should also compensate for too much front weight. I feel I gained and will keep making fine adjustments. I can only shoot so many in a session and I get fatigued. I am hoping shooting every day will help that as well. Good muscle tone surely can't hurt.

Edit, wrong thumb, it is my left thumb on the right side of the grip.


Thanks
Jeff
 
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NEMTHunter

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Draw length being to long or to short and or being to tense can cause some of the oscillation problems. Bows are a fine tuned machine if a little's off it can make a big difference. I shoot my best when I am relaxed.
 
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Check draw length, but main issue usually is stabilizer set up. I use a front and rear bar. 15" in the front and 10" in the back. More of a target set up but really helps at longer range.
 

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OK, I need some help from better shooters than I. I get quite a bit of "sight Oscillation" and find myself trying to shoot whn the pin crosses the target. I have the new Option Archery "Quivilizer" (a quiver that mounts so it doubles as a stabilizer and sticks way out front) I am noticing that I shoot tighter groups when I take it off. I am assuming since most target shooters use long "stabilizers" I must be doing something wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.

Jeff

I don't think you can ever completely stop pin float, but I do believe there are a few places to troubleshoot to minimize it. Draw length, Draw weight, and front and rear stabilizer weight adjustments. Reducing draw weight to a comfortable level that allows you to hold at full draw long enough to get a shot off is key. If you are experiencing fatigue at any time during the shot sequence, or not able to relax, drop the poundage on your bow until you can do this.

Once you have the draw weight under control, make sure your draw length isn't too long. Lots of people have this issue. It causes left and right issues at longer distances past 45-50 yards IMO. Shorter is better in almost every scenario.

Stabilizer weight is going to be unique to your bow, accessories and your form. I don't remember the exact amount of ounces I ended up with, but it was basically trial and error for each bow. Add a little up front and the rear until your float calms down. swing the angled back bar around until you can level out with the bubble on your sight. Assuming you have the second and third axis leveled prior to getting your front and back bars done. If this is your first time trying this, don't be discouraged if you can't get it done in an afternoon. It normally takes me 2-4 sessions or more to get things like I want them.

And very much like load development with rifles, you want no wind conditions when troubleshooting these issues or you will be chasing your tail.
 

Broz

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Thanks, I have worked with all these things, and I do work a little at a time as I can shoot right in the yard. I only have the draw weight at 65#, My torn rotator cuffs do at times bother me during draw, but once I am in the valley there is no issue holding it.

Jeff

EDIT to add: This year I will be trying other bows. I am looking for "The One"
 

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Thanks, I have worked with all these things, and I do work a little at a time as I can shoot right in the yard. I only have the draw weight at 65#, My torn rotator cuffs do at times bother me during draw, but once I am in the valley there is no issue holding it.

Jeff

EDIT to add: This year I will be trying other bows. I am looking for "The One"

That is a great idea. Make sure you try them at your draw length and near the poundage you want to shoot. I like to shoot bows that are 60-65lbs and 32-34" ATA and preferably 6" brace height. Bows of that spec seem to work for me. I don't like short bows or the string angle. I can shoot them just fine, but not near as well at the longer ranges that I enjoy shooting to practice.
 

Broz

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That is a great idea. Make sure you try them at your draw length and near the poundage you want to shoot. I like to shoot bows that are 60-65lbs and 32-34" ATA and preferably 6" brace height. Bows of that spec seem to work for me. I don't like short bows or the string angle. I can shoot them just fine, but not near as well at the longer ranges that I enjoy shooting to practice.

I have owned bows from 32" to 34" with 6 and 7" brace height. Couldn't tell a lot of difference. I can shoot what I have "OK" (BowTech Realm X) but just have to work real hard at it. I may try some accessory swap outs too. Like leaving the Option archery quivelizer and go back to a conventional quiver. I may also have my sight reworked with larger filaments to accommodate my aging eyes.
 

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A lot of good points here.

My questions would be the following,

When you anchor is the string at the tip of your nose or past?

Is your bow arm slightly bent or rigid?

Are you holding the weight with your shoulder blades "pinched" , meaning you are using your back to hold the weight or not your release hand. Basically squeezing your shoulder blades together and pushing your chest out will help relax your arms.

I always have some oscillation in my pin, though this can be exaggerated by how far your sight housing is from the riser, and if form is slightly off it will be amplified.

Since you have rotator cup issues it sounds the near .75 pounds you have out front not to mention the moment arm is adding to your fatigue and pin movement. Ever bow will be different though.

I feel Prime has made head way with the engineering of the riser design to help eliminate movement through design, though each user will find this differently, check out the Prime CT5 is your search this year, I just got mine and am very impressed.

As for stabilizers I will be running this version this year and will report back my findings, if have found I only need to level my bubble when I have a quiver attached, this will help adjust fo the added fulcrum. Bee Stinger - Hunting Stabilizers


Also when drawing the bow try and push and pull both arms using your back, this will help take tension off your rotator cuff and front delt.
 

Broz

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String is at tip of Nose.
Bow arm slightly bent.
Yes I do tighten my shoulder blades to an ark

I do want to shoot a Prime, I have heard they almost eliminate torquing the bow.

One more bit of info. I have to fight to keep my draw arm elbow up. The injured shoulders tend to want me to drop my elbow down.
 

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Jeff I've been shooting bows for years and bending your bow arm is always a no no, you are then using muscles and upon release it is very difficult and near impossible to hold steady and consistently. Tucking your pinky and ring finger between your palm and bow grip forces you to turn your hand slightly which turns your arm a bit. Nothing but bones should be holding the bow.

Pete's Tip #022 - The Front Arm - YouTube Pete explains it here
 

Broz

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Jeff I've been shooting bows for years and bending your bow arm is always a no no, you are then using muscles and upon release it is very difficult and near impossible to hold steady and consistently. Tucking your pinky and ring finger between your palm and bow grip forces you to turn your hand slightly which turns your arm a bit. Nothing but bones should be holding the bow.

Pete's Tip #022 - The Front Arm - YouTube Pete explains it here

Hmmm. I do actually drop my pinky and ring finger in to relax the grip consistently. Last year I had a "professional" offering me lessons, he told me to never lock my bow elbow. To relax it out just a bit. Maybe I gave the wrong impression here, it is not actually bent, just relaxed off of locked.
 

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I have owned bows from 32" to 34" with 6 and 7" brace height. Couldn't tell a lot of difference. I can shoot what I have "OK" (BowTech Realm X) but just have to work real hard at it. I may try some accessory swap outs too. Like leaving the Option archery quivelizer and go back to a conventional quiver. I may also have my sight reworked with larger filaments to accommodate my aging eyes.

I’m thinking you haven’t found the right combination yet. When you do, you will know it. Realm X is a great bow. Maybe the grip isn’t a good fit? Grip is really important. Must be repeatable for accuracy and consistency.
 

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String is at tip of Nose.
Bow arm slightly bent.
Yes I do tighten my shoulder blades to an ark

I do want to shoot a Prime, I have heard they almost eliminate torquing the bow.

One more bit of info. I have to fight to keep my draw arm elbow up. The injured shoulders tend to want me to drop my elbow down.

Technique and fit seem on point, so it sounds like its either the bow like you said, just not the right feel with the combination you have too much weight out front.

BTW I shoot with a slight bent arm, relaxed elbow not locked, every shooter will tell you something different, it has to comfortable and repeatable. Though for grip I am a firm believer in setting the position,"grip inline with bone" and not using your fingers to help eliminate torque, I do shoot with my pointer knuckle high if that makes sense.
 

Broz

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Great info all, Thanks.

What about my issue with my draw elbow down slightly? Is it highly important to keep it high as some have told me? I am talking down 3 or 4" from the highest point I can hold it.

Jeff
 

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Great info all, Thanks.

What about my issue with my draw elbow down slightly? Is it highly important to keep it high as some have told me? I am talking down 3 or 4" from the highest point I can hold it.

Jeff

The higher you hold your draw elbow (right elbow for right handers) the more back tension you'll have on your release. Draw your bow back and fall into a comfortable position. Then move your elbow up. You'll feel the back tension increase. For me, if I'm snapping the trigger and not pulling through my shots, this is usally why.
 

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Great info all, Thanks.

What about my issue with my draw elbow down slightly? Is it highly important to keep it high as some have told me? I am talking down 3 or 4" from the highest point I can hold it.

Jeff


Hard to say without seeing it for myself, but generally you want your draw elbow flat, so both of your shoulders are on the same plane. Your draw elbow pointing downward could be a sign of draw length too long.

Kinda hard to describe, but flat meaning even shoulders, AND draw arm pointing the exact opposite way of the target you are shooting at. Imagine a dead level line between arrow and target that extends back 180* behind you through your body and past your elbow to another target on same plane. That draw elbow should be pointing at the target behind you with both shoulders even. Pulling straight back thru the shot.

In my opinion, if your draw elbow is pointing anywhere except where I described, you should look at your draw length before making any bow changes.
 

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Great info all, Thanks.

What about my issue with my draw elbow down slightly? Is it highly important to keep it high as some have told me? I am talking down 3 or 4" from the highest point I can hold it.

Jeff

Is your elbow below the top of your shoulder?

Elbow height can vary for each shooter and what release you choose, a hinge style forces you to have a higher elbow. I looked at my form earlier today, and my elbow is slightly above top of shoulder, can't give an exact measurement, though I am shooting a trigger wrist strap.

Not to get off topic, this is a good video about front elbow position

School Of Nock- Week 10- The front elbow - YouTube
 

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Hello Broz, long time listener, first time caller, lol, always wanted to say that... If you havent already, you should check out John Dudley on youtube. He has all the info on the how and why that I used when I first started a few years ago. That and a good pro shop to set everything up proper from the start makes a world of difference. Also getting a spare grip with some cordage attached at the proper length to dry fire practice is a great aid. Good luck and remember just like a rifle the more input you have to put in, you have to do it the same everytime...
 

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Old thread, but try pushing a little more on your bow hand. Not a lot, but it slows the pin movement for me.
 

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Old thread, but try pushing a little more on your bow hand. Not a lot, but it slows the pin movement for me.
Agreed, but critical is even palm pressure. I’ve seen too many people that push too much with the tops of their palms, leaning “the stop sign forward” as opposed to keeping it perpendicular to the ground. Push more, but with even pressure top to bottom on your palm/life line.
 
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All the comments are great and all do contribute to improving shot accuracy. I have tried many myself but the one thing that helped the most my 12 in Bee Stinger stabalizer with 4 ounces on the end. All my buddies back in Oregon shoot long stabalizers. Guys like Corey Jacobsen ( Crossover telescopic stabalizer), Nate Simmons ( Option Archery's Quivalizer) are a couple I can name off hand. Then look at the target shooters super long stabilizers. I know it can sometimes suck carrying them around but for longer shoots you guys out west may need to take besides practice these long stabilizers really do improve your shot and reduce your sight movement.
 

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All the comments are great and all do contribute to improving shot accuracy. I have tried many myself but the one thing that helped the most my 12 in Bee Stinger stabalizer with 4 ounces on the end. All my buddies back in Oregon shoot long stabalizers. Guys like Corey Jacobsen ( Crossover telescopic stabalizer), Nate Simmons ( Option Archery's Quivalizer) are a couple I can name off hand. Then look at the target shooters super long stabilizers. I know it can sometimes suck carrying them around but for longer shoots you guys out west may need to take besides practice these long stabilizers really do improve your shot and reduce your sight movement.
Agreed, however I find that the back stabilizer is more important as an offset to sight, quiver, arrows etc etc.
My process is to fully dress out my bow and then come to full draw with my eyes closed and get into my anchor and get settled in. Open my eyes and mainly look at my level and then adjust the back bar (I use a Shrewd Atlas) with either the down angle, side kick out, or weights. Then repeat the process until at full draw with my eyes closed my bow naturally comes to perfectly perpendicular to the ground. Once my left right is good, I then throw a bar up front, usually 8” or 10” and play with length and weight based upon side kick out upon release, or follow through for a natural fall away motion.
 

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Never have went that route, side/back stabalizer. I hunt mostly from a tree stand and remove my quiver. I figure if I can shoot 5in groups at 100yds without why change. Was shooting a bow for over 30 years before they came out with the side stabalizer. How did all those animals get harvested without them???? They may help some but absolutely not necessary!
 

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Never have went that route, side/back stabalizer. I hunt mostly from a tree stand and remove my quiver. I figure if I can shoot 5in groups at 100yds without why change. Was shooting a bow for over 30 years before they came out with the side stabalizer. How did all those animals get harvested without them???? They may help some but absolutely not necessary!
You’re a better man than me if you are dropping 5” at 100. I can get those at 60 yards, and then my eyes start to get the best of me. But I was able to squeeze the release at the right moment at 72 yards on my Piñon NM elk....that was and will be my longest ever. Just not comfortable further out as I don’t have a place to practice it consistently enough to take a shot at a game animal.
 

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Another thing that I do to help in the physical aspect is a lot of offset push ups. I use a yoga block under one hand as it makes a 4” height difference. You work these into your typical push-up routine a d your front shoulder will be stud like for stabilizing your bow arm.
 

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Another thing that I do to help in the physical aspect is a lot of offset push ups. I use a yoga block under one hand as it makes a 4” height difference. You work these into your typical push-up routine a d your front shoulder will be stud like for stabilizing your bow arm.

Since I tore up my shoulders, this is definitely something I need to work on. Not sure I could do do the push ups enough to help, (shoulders are pretty much screwed) but I need to work at something to strengthen them all I can.
 

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I don't ever plan on taking a animal at that distance. I did shoot a deer at 65yds in a soybean field from the ground, no treestand. I practice at that distance as it makes 50yds and closer very consistent and repeatable. My sight has first pin .019 and the rest .010 on a five pin sight. That .010 pin is great for them longer shots.
 

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Since I tore up my shoulders, this is definitely something I need to work on. Not sure I could do do the push ups enough to help, (shoulders are pretty much screwed) but I need to work at something to strengthen them all I can.
You can do them either with knees down with the block, or do it leaning forward onto a bathroom or kitchen counter at a 45 angle. I feel ya, I tore my labrum in my bow arm a number of years ago and basically incorporated a bunch of my PT into my typical workout routine.
 

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Broz.
Try some shoulders lifts starting with 5lb weights then work up to 7lb and so forth. Don't need heavy weights to improve your shoulder strength. On the lifts, do not lift higher than the actual shoulder. Going higher than the shoulder muscle can do more damage than good and is wasted movement. My early years in the Navy I was big into weights. I fell from a treestand in 1990 and broke my neck, compression fracture C6, C7. The Doctor told me my weight training probably saved my life.
 

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Since I tore up my shoulders, this is definitely something I need to work on. Not sure I could do do the push ups enough to help, (shoulders are pretty much screwed) but I need to work at something to strengthen them all I can.

Broz, I am not experienced enough to speak to form, equipment, technique, etc. But I can speak to strength training. I have seen many friends and professionals with shoulder problems. 3 from my academy alone were medically retired in less than 5 years. A strength routine to build ALL the stabilizer muscles in the shoulder is key and overlooked by many. A former co-worker and professional trainer uses and recommends this product:


Another friend who was a great and experienced athlete himself tried this product and said, "It changed my life!" I highly recommend trying something like the Crossover Symmetry product. I hope this helps.

Joe
 

RBanta66

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Sierra Joe
Looks like a great product, I was gonna come back and say a lot of physical therapist just use strength bands.

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Broz.
Try some shoulders lifts starting with 5lb weights then work up to 7lb and so forth. Don't need heavy weights to improve your shoulder strength. On the lifts, do not lift higher than the actual shoulder. Going higher than the shoulder muscle can do more damage than good and is wasted movement. My early years in the Navy I was big into weights. I fell from a treestand in 1990 and broke my neck, compression fracture C6, C7. The Doctor told me my weight training probably saved my life.



I started using Lifelines a few years back in my tree stand. Now all of my stands have them, and I won’t go without them. Crazy to think in my younger years I didn’t use a harness or anything of the sort.
 

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I started using Lifelines a few years back in my tree stand. Now all of my stands have them, and I won’t go without them. Crazy to think in my younger years I didn’t use a harness or anything of the sort.
Absolutely. I love my tree rope with cruscik knot (spelling...???) and the equalizer levelling tree stand. That is the only stand that I'll teach my boys to hunt out of.
 

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My first treestand was a Warren and Sweat climber and it was only the platform. I was hugging the tree to climb. Safety strap was a cargo strap with plastic clips. Oh yes this was 1990. Now I do climbing sticks with hang on's and life lines and some of the 18ft Archers ladder stands from sportsman's guide. My climber is the Aluminum OlMan at 21lbs Love it!

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"The Little Things", as in the posts above can make significant differences. A lot of good info has already been shared. I have been a competitor in the archery world but my eyes have deteriorated to where I am competitive, but not in the winners circle anymore. Something not mentioned yet is Caffeine. When I shoot, I always stay away from anything with caffeine. I find holding steady is nearly impossible when I have caffeine in my system.

 

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