Terminus Apollo - Smokeless MZ

[ENCORE]

Brownells has some right now.

HODGDON POWDER H4895 | Brownells

Hodgdon Powder offers one of the largest selections of quality smokeless propellants for rifle reloading. These powders are very popular with high power and long-range shooters, varmint hunters, and benchrest shooters. Hodgdon's exclusive line of ...

www.brownells.com

Thanks for the heads up on that powder!!!!!
I've been looking for it and was able to get an order in before it was all gone.

 

[mjspeers]

Thanks for the heads up on that powder!!!!!
I've been looking for it and was able to get an order in before it was all gone.

It's the bees knees in smokeless muzzies with the heavies.

 

[ENCORE]

It's the bees knees in smokeless muzzies with the heavies.

My intent is shooting 350gr XLD's at 1,000yds with it.

 

[mjspeers]

I’ll be curious to hear what your speeds are. I shoot 300gn NSRs and get in the range of 3100. I hear the 325s really don’t lose much speed over the same charges.

 

[Ladd]

Missed it. Been in meetings all day and driving 300 mi south now. Thanks though.

 

[ENCORE]

I’ll be curious to hear what your speeds are. I shoot 300gn NSRs and get in the range of 3100. I hear the 325s really don’t lose much speed over the same charges.

Been recovering from PT all day. Had a complete knee replacement.

I'll run a Satterlee test and determine where my first node is. In general, I prefer that first node over increased velocity.

My rifle really likes 8208 and the 300gr XLD's. I do the test then graph it out.
NOTE: CHARGES LISTED ARE SAFE IN MY RIFLE. THEY MAY NOT BE SAFE IN ANYONE ELSES.



Two very distinct nodes. I shoot the lighter. The Benchmark header is WRONG. Ignore.

 

[Ladd]

Summer is trying to hold on for a bit longer. 108°F outside and probably 95°F inside my garage but I finally bedded the Terminus Apollo is pillars and all. It’s cured and am now waiting for a new TriggerTech trigger, cooler weather and more free time of course, then I can hopefully get this MZ out. I went for a full bedding on this one and it turned out pretty good.

 

[muleystalker]

It should. I've shot 3 now, the two heavier guns were fine, my 110lb wife has shot it.

If you don't mind, share your results when you get to it. I've got a stock of IMR4198 I'm planning to use for my wife's gun with 275s NSRs. But over on Hank's message boards they always talk about H4895 being the ticket for the heavy bullets.

Then if you get frisky, try H4895, somewhere around 100gn you should eclipse the 3,000fps mark.

105gr of H4895, CCI250, and 300gr PITTMAN AEROMAX in my 26" BRUX is getting 3090FPS. The action is a Defiance OUTCAST muzzle loader action. This load is shooting in the .1's and .2's right from the first rounds through the barrel.

 

[duramax]

Ladd, do you have any more updates on this gun?

 

[Ladd]

Ladd, do you have any more updates on this gun?

This muzzle loader sits in my safe and when I open the door to grab other projects, it cries. I have to get back to it.

 

[duramax]

This muzzle loader sits in my safe and when I open the door to grab other projects, it cries. I have to get back to it.

Ok, thanks for the reply

 

[Ladd]

Sorry about the delay in this one. It’s ready to go. No excuses.

 

[Ladd]

I lied. I checked it over and it needed a scope, the scope rail bedded, trigger installed and a front rail on the stock. So, I took care of everything today but the front rail.

 

[Ladd]

…and done.

 

[duramax]

I like it, will you be sizing the bullets to be easy loading? Looking forward to seeing your range report.

 

[Ladd]

I like it, will you be sizing the bullets to be easy loading? Looking forward to seeing your range report.

I have a couple test packs of 310 gr Arrowhead Rifle’s NSR bullets to see which fits better in the HCA barrel. If they don’t work well then I will go to sizing Parker bullets.

I have a lead on some H4895 today. That would be good to grab. Otherwise I may have to wait or try a lighter bullet with the IMR 4198 I have. I don’t want to reinvent recipes as much as possible.

 

[mjspeers]

Did you ever get a final weight? Sub 10lbs you may want to go with the lighter bullets anyway. I've now had a chance to put together 6 of these and getting a decent feel for them. My whole extended family wanted one as soon as they found out what they could do. But I have only shot Brux barrels. Of the 5 I've used NSRs, all have fit the small size fine.

Also, I'm not sure if you mentioned how big your chamber is? Typically to run a larger powder column (100+ of H4895) you'd need a 5" shank on the blank (out from the lug 4.25").

To start, I would try 78gn of IMR4198 under a 275, if you have both. It is Hankins' preferred load, it is still somewhat stout and should net you close to 3,000fps.

 

[NC_Surveyor]

you're gonna love and appreciate that shockwave brake. Watch out because they are known to lose tension so keep an eye on it after a few shots. Luke loctited mine all together and I prefer it that way.

 

[Ladd]

Did you ever get a final weight? Sub 10lbs you may want to go with the lighter bullets anyway. I've now had a chance to put together 6 of these and getting a decent feel for them. My whole extended family wanted one as soon as they found out what they could do. But I have only shot Brux barrels. Of the 5 I've used NSRs, all have fit the small size fine.

Also, I'm not sure if you mentioned how big your chamber is? Typically to run a larger powder column (100+ of H4895) you'd need a 5" shank on the blank (out from the lug 4.25").

To start, I would try 78gn of IMR4198 under a 275, if you have both. It is Hankins' preferred load, it is still somewhat stout and should net you close to 3,000fps.

The barrel blank had a 4” tenon that is finished to about 3.25”.

 

[mjspeers]

Did you get a recommend load from your builder? I definitely don’t know what loads you can use. H4895 is probably out, faster powders are necessary I’m betting.

 

[Ladd]

Did you get a recommend load from your builder? I definitely don’t know what loads you can use. H4895 is probably out, faster powders are necessary I’m betting.

I'll have to ask Luke.

 

[Ladd]

To be safe, I ordered a test pack of 275 gr NSRs to go with the other powder. Getting my hands on H4895 is proving difficult but I may have a pound this week. I would like to get out and shoot a few rifles this weekend before leaving for France.

 

[Ladd]

Score. $180 for the lot

 

[mjspeers]

Come again. Where’d you find that unicorn dust for so cheap?!?!

 

[ENCORE]

Come again. Where’d you find that unicorn dust for so cheap?!?!

Really, I agree. I'd take 10# if I could get my hands on it...........

 

[Ladd]

Come again. Where’d you find that unicorn dust for so cheap?!?!

Locally. Private seller clearing out and selling off all guns and reloading equipment.

 

[OSOK - Crash]

Locally. Private seller clearing out and selling off all guns and reloading equipment.

Nice score Ladd! Anything else your guy got?

 

[mjspeers]

Locally. Private seller clearing out and selling off all guns and reloading equipment.

Buy. It. All.

 

[Ladd]

Nice score Ladd! Anything else your guy got?

He is selling his guns but my focus is on a smaller window of long range equipment.

 

[Ladd]

I have some Arrowhead Rifles NSRs in both 275 and 300 gr. Plus powder for each. I need to get some loads ready for a ladder and see what I see. Hopefully this holiday weekend. After some house stuff and walking the dogs with my wife.

 

[Ladd]

Finally took this out today to test some loads. Shot only the 275 NSRs and I can’t complain. 5-shots right there with an average velocity of 2955 fps. I did not rev it up any further nor did I get to all my loads before I had to go home but this looks everything that I had hoped for. The lower 3 are from another rifle.

The Terminus Apollo 45 cal smokeless muzzleloader with the Arrowhead ASG ignition in the HCA carbon wrapped barrel threaded and chambered by Patriot Valley Arms is alive and shooting.

 

[Ladd]

Did you guys see that 5-shot group in the previous post? I was amazed to say the least. It laid those down even while bucking like a bronco. I was smiles all the way home and I had to come home early to walk my daughters dog.

 

[Ladd]

I must say that loading the primer module on the Apollo bolt was tricky at first but I have it now. The ejector plunger and spring have been removed but it would be even more slick with a modified bolt face that accepted these modules from the ejection port via sliding them onto the bolt face. Even so, this is going to be a shooter. I am grinning from ear to ear and I will let everyone know that @Joel Russo has an awesome option for a smokeless muzzleloader. It could be better but for now it is doable.

 

[J2shooter]

Did you guys see that 5-shot group in the previous post? I was amazed to say the least. It laid those down even while bucking like a bronco. I was smiles all the way home and I had to come home early to walk my daughters dog.

Very impressive indeed. Good shooting too knowing that thing is about to whip you again.

 

[mjspeers]

Hard to fuss about that. These guns tend to be so easy to tune. Every gun I’ve worked with is well capable of making one ragged hole. Open doors to new seasons too.

Arrowhead makes a little magnet that go on the bolt so it stays open and easier to put in the primer module, I can’t say if it’ll work for a 3-lug because designed for 2lug.

I was wondering how it might kick with a light setup. I put a light one together for my cousin, after a season he’s getting a heavier stock on it. I’m not sure I’d want to jump up bullet weights but you’d know best. That load should easily kill anything on this continent. These are absolutely devastating on deer.

 

[Ladd]

Hard to fuss about that. These guns tend to be so easy to tune. Every gun I’ve worked with is well capable of making one ragged hole. Open doors to new seasons too.

Arrowhead makes a little magnet that go on the bolt so it stays open and easier to put in the primer module, I can’t say if it’ll work for a 3-lug because designed for 2lug.

I was wondering how it might kick with a light setup. I put a light one together for my cousin, after a season he’s getting a heavier stock on it. I’m not sure I’d want to jump up bullet weights but you’d know best. That load should easily kill anything on this continent. These are absolutely devastating on deer.

I remember seeing that thing from Arrowhead. I might have to look into it.

The trick is holding the rifle in my left arm and holding the bolt with my left hand while my right hand snaps the primer module past the extractor. A little dance but it will get easier over time. One shot though. Aim small miss small. Nothing I’m not used to when most of my rifles are single shots, sort of.

This kick is not bad. I exaggerate. I’ll post it to Instagram soon. I shot video of the SML, 300 Terminator and 338 Terminator. The Terminators kick worse.

 

[Gillettehunter]

Nice shooting. That muzzleloader is really treating you right. Well done.
Bruce

 

[Ladd]

Check out the recoil on Instagram.

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[duramax]

Finally took this out today to test some loads. Shot only the 275 NSRs and I can’t complain. 5-shots right there with an average velocity of 2955 fps. I did not rev it up any further nor did I get to all my loads before I had to go home but this looks everything that I had hoped for. The lower 3 are from another rifle.

The Terminus Apollo 45 cal smokeless muzzleloader with the Arrowhead ASG ignition in the HCA carbon wrapped barrel threaded and chambered by Patriot Valley Arms is alive and shooting.
View attachment 14479View attachment 14480

Excellent results there, looking forward to your your reports on how it shoots at distance.

 

[ENCORE]

I use the Arrowhead bolt stop. I prefer it. https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/bolt-stop/

 

[duramax]

Ladd, were these bullets the large or small diameter NSR's ? Also did the ones you use require much effort to seat?

 

[Ladd]

Ladd, were these bullets the large or small diameter NSR's ? Also did the ones you use require much effort to seat?

The first two were small and the last three were the large. The large seems to fit best in this barrel.

 

[mjspeers]

That’s the magnetic bolt stop I was talking about, I use that on mine, works well. Good stuff with the video, looked like the SML May have had the most muzzle rise. Why I want to get out to the long range stuff with a buddy to help. It’s near impossible to spot impacts. It is satisfying to take a long shot at a deer and have the scope resettle on one on the ground though.

I think a little looser is sometimes preferred. I believe “they” say that once ignition occurs the bullet obturation fits the bullet to the grooves. “They” being people that probably have more knowledge than I do that I’ve read other places.

But I get it, it seems like tighter is better. When I sized I like just minimal pressure so when I foul the bore it still seats with little pressure. Temperature can effect fit too, can’t imagine it’s too warm for you right now.

 

[Ladd]

That’s the magnetic bolt stop I was talking about, I use that on mine, works well. Good stuff with the video, looked like the SML May have had the most muzzle rise. Why I want to get out to the long range stuff with a buddy to help. It’s near impossible to spot impacts. It is satisfying to take a long shot at a deer and have the scope resettle on one on the ground though.

I think a little looser is sometimes preferred. I believe “they” say that once ignition occurs the bullet obturation fits the bullet to the grooves. “They” being people that probably have more knowledge than I do that I’ve read other places.

But I get it, it seems like tighter is better. When I sized I like just minimal pressure so when I foul the bore it still seats with little pressure. Temperature can effect fit too, can’t imagine it’s too warm for you right now.

The SML did have muzzle rise while the others had little. I may not have had proper form and/or the difference is in the muzzle brakes. I will take notice as I shoot this more.

I think I need to custom order a TI Pro 3 ST with 11/16-24 threads with a .500” bore to load through if @Livetohunt will let me.

 

[duramax]

What ramrod are you using?

 

[Ladd]

What ramrod are you using?

I have a collapsible and a range rod. Both from Arrowhead.

 

[Livetohunt]

The SML did have muzzle rise while the others had little. I may not have had proper form and/or the difference is in the muzzle brakes. I will take notice as I shoot this more.

I think I need to custom order a TI Pro 3 ST with 11/16-24 threads with a .500” bore to load through if @Livetohunt will let me.

We do have that thread gage now! But the timing nut has to be different… hmmm

 

[Ladd]

We do have that thread gage now! But the timing nut has to be different… hmmm

What about a non ST but with a .500" bore?

 

[Livetohunt]

That we could definitely do!

Will be a bit as we are moving the shop next week into Idaho!

 

[Ladd]

That we could definitely do!

Will be a bit as we are moving the shop next week into Idaho!

Put me on your schedule. Good luck with the move.