Sig sauer kilo 2000 review

Broz

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This thread is for the discussion of the Review by Jeff Brozovich on the new Sig Sauer Kilo 2000 laser rangefinder. Here is the place to discuss the unit or ask questions.

Go here to read the review

Go Here for the follow up Video Review "How to get the most from your Kilo 2000"

Thanks
Jeff

 

kbaerg

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Thanks for the review, it's nice to see that it does have some positives. I'm still keeping my Leica but nice to see other options that will work well.
 

mtnwrunner

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Broz, great write up and thanks for taking all that time to do it.
 

Broz

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Thanks guys, I think it is a very good option for most of us. Its not going to replace the higher priced units but sure as heck is a value and will get a lot done for most of us. Glad you liked the review.

Jeff
 

Broz

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Wow, was not expecting this. And so fast too. We have just heard back from SIG SUAER. They loved the review and are already looking into addressing the only two complaints we had. Namely the large reticle and the finish wear. That says a lot for this company I believe. Way to go SIG.

Jeff
 

Bear Camp

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Jeff, good review. Thanks for putting the time in for this stuff. I have a question for you. I had heard some that this unit is not the traditional eye safe class of laser. Is this true or did I get this confused with a different unit? If so, it might be worth mentioning so. I cant say this would bother me, but some may want to know this. Thanks for you time and commitment once again.
 
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Wow, was not expecting this. And so fast too. We have just heard back from SIG SUAER. They loved the review and are already looking into addressing the only two complaints we had. Namely the large reticle and the finish wear. That says a lot for this company I believe. Way to go SIG.

Jeff

That is good news. It's always good to see companies take feedback from end users and look at improving the product to better meet their needs.
 

Broz

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Jeff,I had heard some that this unit is not the traditional eye safe class of laser. Is this true or did I get this confused with a different unit? If so, it might be worth mentioning so. I cant say this would bother me, but some may want to know this. Thanks for you time and commitment once again.

Brad, here is what it says in the manual. In todays world of CYA and bubble wrap even in the hands of idiots, I would expect this warning with any laser.

From the Manual:

" CLASS 3R LASER PRODUCT INVISIBLE LASER RADIATION - AVOID DIRECT EYE CONTACT EXPOSURE"
" This product complies with IEC 60825-03 Ed 2.0 and complies with FDA performance standards for laser product except for except for deviations pursuant to Laser Notice No. 50, dated June 24, 2007. Po < 10W, ~ = 905 m, t= 20 ns"

Then it goes on to address it is in compliance with Class B digital devices and FCC rules but may cause radio interference.

I would expect this to be normal and compare with all lasers of decent power today. I am sure my PLRF10 is way more dangerous. I guess my feelings are common sense will be the best route here. Don't take chances. Just like we would treat our rifles, hand guns and knives. Probably best kept out of childrens hands as well until they are educated in proper usage.

Jeff
 

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Wow, was not expecting this. And so fast too. We have just heard back from SIG SUAER. They loved the review and are already looking into addressing the only two complaints we had. Namely the large reticle and the finish wear. That says a lot for this company I believe. Way to go SIG.

Jeff

Interesting... soooo, wonder how long that will be. I had planned on ordering one, but if they're going to put a better reticle in it, it might be worth waiting. Of course it might be next year too. That's probably a more likely timeline. Did they give any indication at all?
 

Broz

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Interesting... soooo, wonder how long that will be. I had planned on ordering one, but if they're going to put a better reticle in it, it might be worth waiting. Of course it might be next year too. That's probably a more likely timeline. Did they give any indication at all?

No, just that they were going to address the issue with any new RF's down the road and also may look at changing this in the current model as well. I would expect this will have to go through engineering and then production. Maybe some testing as well. If you need a RF now I would not wait. Maybe update down the road later. Remember, even with these small things I complained about, the current unit is the very best value today and passed every test I could toss at it.

Jeff
 

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Right on. Like I said, using a Bushnell 1 mile currently, but there are times it frustrates me. This is hard to argue with for $400. I can sell the bushy and get some of it back too. Lol
 

Bear Camp

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Ok, thanks for the prompted feed back Jeff. Looks like to me I was miss informed on this.
 

Broz

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Now get this. Yesterday my phone rings. Its and it was one on the guys from SIG SAUER. Then we had a little conference call with another of their people. They called to thank me for the review. They made it clear the call was not just to thank us for the review, but more so for the input about the things I didn't like. That was their main focus for the call. During this call they told me they had already instructed the test department to get one and start scratching and beating on the surface. Then to start research for a better finish. They also told me they were working on a reduced size reticle. The real eye opener here for me was when they explained how the alignment of the laser and the reticle in relation to beam divergence. We must remember too that we are speaking of one hell of a laser RF for a price that is way below anything like it. So assembly time is crucial. But, they felt that they can reduce the reticle circle by 30% and this would encourage the assembly people to get the lase inside of the smaller reticle before fusing it in place. This should be great! They also told me the processor used was way faster than 4 times a second. But they had to slow it down because it will cycle so fast the human eye cant read the display. The other thing they said was to be aware their processor is new technology. If you have ever used the scan on a Leica then use scan on the Kilo 2000 you know what we are talking about. We pretty much have all settled in on one shot lasing because the scan on the Leica is hard to get up and simply does not work that well. So we need to adapt here when using a Kilo 2000. Use the scan to hover over or cross the target. When you see they Kilo getting a repeated number release the button. The distance will be held on the display. Now, I personally will caution here. We don't want to get to sloppy, and I will still be on sand bags for the longer pokes, but I need to adapt to their new processor speed and play with this. If fact, I have returned the Kilo I reviewed, but may try to get another to do an article just about using the new found technology and comparing it for accuracy to the PLRF10.

Just wanted to share all this. But I have to say, I am pretty much blown away by the commitment SIG SAUER Electro-Optics is making here. I was very impressed I got a call. Thank you to the guys at SIG.

Jeff
 

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Wow that's quite the dedication to improve a product in a hurry, well done Sig and Thanks for the review Jeff
 

mtnwrunner

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Wow, you cannot ask much more than that from a company. Well, unless that want to give us all one.......:)
I am planning on buying one of these.
 

thefishbox

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did they have any idea when they would be able to get these upgrades done? Also since you have there ear talk them into smaller beam divergence and all the other goodies and next thing you know we will have the new terrapin. I don't know about everyone else but I would be willing to pay more if they came out with one that was another step up.
 

Broz

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did they have any idea when they would be able to get these upgrades done? Also since you have there ear talk them into smaller beam divergence and all the other goodies and next thing you know we will have the new terrapin. I don't know about everyone else but I would be willing to pay more if they came out with one that was another step up.

I did not discuss when the changes they settle in on would be made. But when I hear something I will be sure to post up here. As for beam smaller divergence, NO one likes the smaller beams than I. But like I said in the review the 1.4 mrad is really pretty tight. It passed all my tests into timber and over sage. I don't see this as an issue at this time. Especially for the price.

The folks at SIG SUAER Elecrto-Optics are focused to bring they optics to the front. I would not be surprised if there is not another RF in their future.

Jeff
 

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Jeff,
How do these compared to a used Swarovski RF that can be picked up at almost the same price range?
 

Broz

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Jeff,
How do these compared to a used Swarovski RF that can be picked up at almost the same price range?

After owning 5 of them back in their day. I can tell you the beam divergence in the Swaro was why I got away from them. Mis ranges were common among their users.

Jeff
 

MontanaMarine

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I imagine it could be done without too much added expense.

A standard mounting socket in the chassis, I think they are 1/4" 25 tpi. Then a cable port with a remote trigger on a coil cable like the old telephone cords, that could extent to 24" or so, but stay compact.

Given the range capabilities of the laser itself, it would be nice to have the option of setting it up on a tripod where it would be really stable and aimable, and be able to trigger it without touching(moving) the unit.
 

The Guide

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After owning 5 of them back in their day. I can tell you the beam divergence in the Swaro was why I got away from them. Mis ranges were common among their users.

Jeff

Are you saying this would be an upgrade from a Swaro RF? My current backup to my Swaro is an old Bushnell that is a 400-500 yard max repeatable reading. This would be an inexpensive way to have a quality backup. I have heard that these have issues in very cold weather (under 20 degrees) and will not power up.

Jay
 

Trueblue

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That's why I asked the question, as I was looking at it for a backup to my G7BR2
 

Broz

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Are you saying this would be an upgrade from a Swaro RF? My current backup to my Swaro is an old Bushnell that is a 400-500 yard max repeatable reading. This would be an inexpensive way to have a quality backup. I have heard that these have issues in very cold weather (under 20 degrees) and will not power up.

Jay

Jay, I think so. I just got another KILO 2000 in and will be doing another article on it using the Hyperscan to full advantage.

Jeff
 

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I'd like to see some shooting from positions that these rangefinders with tight beam divergences give the correct distance with other objects close to what we are trying to range. Chances are the same things that dick up our rangefinders might do the same to our bullet placement. In a hunting situation, I'll move until I get a clear line of sight. Seems like its always the rfs fault if it has a very wide beam divergence. Is this actually fact documented or assumption?
 
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Broz

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Franklin, I have documented failed ranges many times with some units with large beam divergence. I tried to get the Kilo to fail and had to actually rub the nearer sage brush to get it to grab it first. And remember the ones that failed for me were ranged with the Leica and the Vectronix and got the correct range. All ranging done from the same position on sand bags.
Now back when I was testing the first Gen G7-BR2 it failed easily. Both on antelope at 600 yards with a mis range where it grabbed a bush 50 yards nearer and lifting up would get a no range into the air. Then as I come back down ranging, it would grab the bush before the actual antelope, even with the reticle on the antelopes back. Then ranging a rock just over a nearer hill, on to a farther hill it gave a 200 yard mis range as it grabbed the nearer hill instead of the targeted rock. I had to shoot close to 15' about the intended rock to eve get on the same hill. I have heard some other complaints about this too. I think GunWerks must have acknowledged the same issue as they reduced the beam divergence in the current "upgraded" model. I have not tested the new design yet but hope to some day.

Jeff
 

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A tripod mount and remote trigger would be great upgrades on a higher end unit.

That would be awesome, I would also say add connectivity to a Kestrel, remote trigger for range and have a real time solution on your mobile device from the Kestrel AB, it almost makes me giggle like a little girl :D
 

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Could you please check it's performance when the unit is cold? When my friend brought his new Kilo deer hunting in January it out ranged my Leica 1600 when it was warm, but after an hour or 2 in the 20 degree weather it would not range as far. Thanks
 

Broz

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Could you please check it's performance when the unit is cold? When my friend brought his new Kilo deer hunting in January it out ranged my Leica 1600 when it was warm, but after an hour or 2 in the 20 degree weather it would not range as far. Thanks

I will do that, but its warming up here so I will toss it in the freezer. I know my Vectronix will act up first when cold if the batteries are getting low. Just a thought.

Jeff
 

Broz

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Something I forgot to cover in the review. You can choose from AMR (angle modified Range) or LOS (Line of Sight) In LOS mode the after you range the unit will cycle two numbers on the display. The distance to target and the angle degree if the shot is up or down hill. Pretty handy for us using an app and eliminates one step on the data input.

Itaylor, the unit is in the freezer now.

Jeff
 

Broz

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Could you please check it's performance when the unit is cold? When my friend brought his new Kilo deer hunting in January it out ranged my Leica 1600 when it was warm, but after an hour or 2 in the 20 degree weather it would not range as far. Thanks

OK, test completed. I placed it in the freezer for 35 minutes at 0* F. Then pulled it and as expected it immediately fogged over. Of course it would not range in this condition. After 2 to 3 minutes I was clearing the lenses with a Q tip and they pretty much stayed clear long enough to range a bush at 1361 yards. Mid day and over cast skies. I did notice that the battery indicator dropped one notch while cold so a weak battery could be an issue in freezing temps. I suspect battery strength of more possible fogging could have been an issue.

Hope this helps

Jeff
 

cmorsch

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Broz, if you were looking for a new range finder would you get the leica 1600 or the sig?
 

Broz

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Broz, if you were looking for a new range finder would you get the leica 1600 or the sig?

You know, I am not going to abandon my Leica yet. But so far what I see is the Sig will pretty much mirror it in most typical hunting instances. Plus the SIG is faster. Also the SIG scan is way better than any other scan I have seen including the Leica. Plus the SIG will range farther on reflective items. I also like some of the SIg's features better. But I don't want to make the call right yet. I have a follow up video on proper usage of the SIG. Maybe after using it more the Leica will be replaced. But lets not forget you can buy a new SIG for a little over 1/2 of what a new Leica cost. So what I will say, I will take the SIG hands down to anything equally priced and probably even any unit that a $100 over the SIG. Maybe the Leica too. I just want more time to test. I don't leave trusted equipment easily.

Jeff
 

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Sounds like I just found my back up unit.....If I had a leica I would keep it but by the sounds of it the Sig is pretty good bang for the buck!
You know, I am not going to abandon my Leica yet. But so far what I see is the Sig will pretty much mirror it in most typical hunting instances. Plus the SIG is faster. Also the SIG scan is way better than any other scan I have seen including the Leica. Plus the SIG will range farther on reflective items. I also like some of the SIg's features better. But I don't want to make the call right yet. I have a follow up video on proper usage of the SIG. Maybe after using it more the Leica will be replaced. But lets not forget you can buy a new SIG for a little over 1/2 of what a new Leica cost. So what I will say, I will take the SIG hands down to anything equally priced and probably even any unit that a $100 over the SIG. Maybe the Leica too. I just want more time to test. I don't leave trusted equipment easily.

Jeff
 

Broz

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Is the glass as good as the Leica?

I'm betting there's some difference there...

Lynn, you are correct. I had to go and compare side by side to see for sure. The Leica is clearer and crisper than the SIG for my eyes. But this was only visible to me when looking for a difference. I don't see any issue with the glass quality in the SIG for most general use. The biggest issue would be out from the center close to the edge of the field of view where it washes a bit. Both are 7X magnification and both get the job done. Not a deal breaker for me, especially for this price, but may be for some.

Jeff
 

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It would be nice to have a 10x+ option for long range work.
 

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Lynn, you are correct. I had to go and compare side by side to see for sure. The Leica is clearer and crisper than the SIG for my eyes. But this was only visible to me when looking for a difference. I don't see any issue with the glass quality in the SIG for most general use. The biggest issue would be out from the center close to the edge of the field of view where it washes a bit. Both are 7X magnification and both get the job done. Not a deal breaker for me, especially for this price, but may be for some.

Jeff

I hear ya...

Thank you for checking it out!

I've gotten to be a bit of a stickler for good glass... The Leica is largely responsible for that too!

Here in the Southeast, I don't carry bino's...I use the Leica as a spotter as much, or more, than as a rangefinder.... Where I hunt, I know the ranges.


I'm not in the market right now anyway, but it was a question that hadn't been asked.... Thought I'd toss it out there.
 
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Jeff, I enjoyed the reading, all the review and the 5 pages here. Awesome work. Thank you.
 

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Thanks for all the time taken to put this thing through it's paces and write the review! I picked one up at my LGS. So far I haven't had the chance to get it on any steel, but it ranged moving vehicles moving away from me going 60mph as they crested a hill out of sight, at 2400 yards. I figure, worst case for ELR, when setting the target, leave one vehicle at the FFP and range the vehicle from the target position. So far, I've been very impressed. Can't wait to get it on some steel.
 

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