Prone Position and Form

dieseldoc

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Here I did a little video on what I do to set up for a long range prone shot. I get asked this a lot, and I thought a video might be an easier way to show my procedure. Check it out then ask questions or comment here.

http://www.longrangeonly.com/long-range-prone-position-and-form/

Thanks!

Jeff
Jeff: As always you put together lot of information. One pointed I didn't know was setting up just below the POA, going to add that to my check list.
Again thanks for the info.

Charlie
 

Bob L.

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This couldn't have come at a better time. I was out yesterday practicing prone. We normally have a bench we hunt with. I heard to zero your gun prone too which I did and in fact was off a couple clicks from the bench. I have decided to shoot/hunt prone only moving forward. It was uncomfortable for me. I always hear get the body directly behind the gun. I know it is hard to tell in your video but you seemed like you came into the rifle at more at angle and stayed that way more than I anticipated. The reason I mention this is it was more comfortable for me to come in under the gun from the side and then try and straighten my legs out some. In fact the most comfortable. Maybe I was trying to hard to be behind it and not take a more natural position. This is going to take some time for me, t wasn't very comfortable and felt neck strain etc. I noticed on a Holland video he also had the kid come from the side and then straighten out?
What I really liked about your video is what you looked like after the shot, nothing moved. I need some work. Maybe I missed it, what is the reason to be directly under the target with scope, to then squeeze the bag up? I will say I saw my shots more than I ever have.
THANK YOU FOR THIS.
 

Broz

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Bob, I always teach to get as straight as comfortably possible behind the rifle. What I had in the video that is hard to see was I was on a bit of a side hill. Enough that I ran the down hill leg of the pod 1 notch higher. If we get to far out of line with the rifle, recoil will push us left or right off the target. That makes spotting hits very hard. So if that starts to be an issue try to straighten up. I cant say enough about muscle memory here. That tight neck will loosen with use. At least we hope it does. The same with getting straighter with the rifle. The more we use, stretch and train these muscles the more they will loosen and comply. The point I want to make about starting with the reticle just below the aim point is, I want the last thing I do to the sand bag to be pushing the rifle stock down to make the bag tighter. If the last thing we do is squeeze the bag to bring the crosshairs down, we run the risk of the bag being too soft and it might collapse under recoil causing the shot to go high. I have seen this way to many times. A tight bag in the back is very important.

Jeff

Edit: I want to add, that how straight we can get will depend greatly on the terrain we are laying on. Sometimes it will just force us to move to where we can get solid. But we want to be as straight as possible.
 

ShtrRdy

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Nice video! Thanks for putting this together!

Do you place the butt of the stock on your collar bone or below it?

Do your crosshairs end up back on target after recoil, or slightly off?
 

Broz

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Nice video! Thanks for putting this together!

Do you place the butt of the stock on your collar bone or below it?

Do your crosshairs end up back on target after recoil, or slightly off?
I place the recoil pad on my shoulder muscle. Just outward of the collar bone.

Edit to answer other Q: The crosshair rarely come right back to point of aim during recoil. But should be in the area of point of aim.

Jeff
 

kbaerg

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Great video and lots of tips here. I will say from experience from listening to Broz, get yourself setup right the first time and keep it consistent. I struggled some ago from not being behind the gun properly, once I fixed my problem my shots were back on track and spotting my shots came easy as well .
 

mabia

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I have found there many variables to shooting prone. Shoulder and cheek pressure are very important as well as lining up behind as straight as possible. Too much cheek pressure will make shots go high. Too much shoulder pressure will also make shots go high. Improper scope leveling will move a shot left or right.

I personally go through a mental check list before any long shot.

1 - Lined up as straight as possible behind rifle
2 - Scope level
3 - rifle just touching shoulder
4 - Cheek lightly pressed on stock
5 - Not putting pressure on stock ( I have a tendency to put a thumb on the stock )

If I can put all this together I normally make a good shot.

Enjoyed the video!!
Hope this helps.

Randy
 

Terry-06

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I've watched the video and read all the replys and have been doing some reading on this. I've only shot off a bipod a very few times.

i shoot low...I'm not sure why yet so I thought I'd ask what causes this?.

With a light sporter , I was hitting around 8" low at 200 yards.

The other day I was shooting a heavy barrel 30-06, no brake, from a concrete bench and hitting .4 mils low, after sighting in from a rest on the bench. After that I did a harder hold and was pretty much on elevation wise. Maybe I'm pulling up on the stock slightly ?

Again, I'm brand new to this and need a lot of trigger time on bipods but thought I'd ask first.


just edited this to say .4 low, not 4 mils, ha!
 
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ShtrRdy

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For myself, I have noticed a different point of impact when shooting prone than when shooting off a bench. My prone shots are typically lower.

I've also noticed a point of impact shift if I'm wearing a heavy coat versus shooing in a T-shirt.
 

Ridgerunner665

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Parallax/cheek weld and improper loading of the legs of the bipod (the reason I don't use them).... Or some combination thereof.

Try prone over a backpack and see what changes.

Could also be a good old fashioned flinch.
 
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Broz

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Terry-06

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Well, I took the day off from work and hit the range today and ran 30-40 rounds through the '06.

I originally sighted in on a concrete bench with leather bags and the rabbit ear rear bag.

So, I'm still dead on with the leather bags.

I tried the bipod again but this time, folded a soft towel and put under the legs.....dead on the money.

Shot off the back pack on the bench using a bean bag at the rear.....still right on.

Then went prone with the bipod and off the back pack....still shooting about .2 mils low.......

Things are getting better though. I must say, I'm not very good with the bipod yet. I did order another Harris today,,, a 6"-9". Mine is the 9"-13" I think. Its just too tall... I was holding about 1 moa at 200 yards but I know the rifle will do better.

Also, pretty sure I'm not flinching but it could be easy to develop one,, shooting that 30-06 a bunch. My rifle isn't braked !! I was getting weary of the recoil the last few rounds...Ha!
 

Broz

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I have spent the last 3 days in the field teaching a man and woman from CA to shoot long in my LR shooting school. All we used were Harris bipods, and bags in the rear, prone position. They learned how to set up solid and break a trigger with good form. By the 3rd day they both made first round hits , and backed them up into a .3 x .7 moa aim point just under 1500 yards. They also both made hits inside .75 moa from aim point at 1822 yards. Dig the front of the bipod into the dirt, get the rear of the stock so solid it stays on target even if you close and reopen your eyes. I have yet to take a student that could not get it down. Good form, getting solid and practice is key. Also if you are not using a high quality bipod, I would be getting one. The 9~13 swivel Harris with a pod lock is our go to bipod right now.

Jef
 

Ridgerunner665

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Well, I took the day off from work and hit the range today and ran 30-40 rounds through the '06.

I originally sighted in on a concrete bench with leather bags and the rabbit ear rear bag.

So, I'm still dead on with the leather bags.

I tried the bipod again but this time, folded a soft towel and put under the legs.....dead on the money.

Shot off the back pack on the bench using a bean bag at the rear.....still right on.

Then went prone with the bipod and off the back pack....still shooting about .2 mils low.......

Things are getting better though. I must say, I'm not very good with the bipod yet. I did order another Harris today,,, a 6"-9". Mine is the 9"-13" I think. Its just too tall... I was holding about 1 moa at 200 yards but I know the rifle will do better.

Also, pretty sure I'm not flinching but it could be easy to develop one,, shooting that 30-06 a bunch. My rifle isn't braked !! I was getting weary of the recoil the last few rounds...Ha!
Doesn't sound like a flinch....

Sounds like you just need some more practice using the bipod.

I used a bipod for years, I drifted away from them partly because of the added weight and partly because there were a couple of hard lessons learned about properly loading the legs that left a bad taste in my mouth, the worst of which was losing a $50 bet on a shot at a 550 yard groundhog.

In all honesty, it was my fault for not taking the time to make sure the legs were set, stable, and properly loaded.

I'm kinda set in my ways now though, I use a pack for prone, sticks for sitting or kneeling, and whatever is available if those don't fit the situation.

In truth.... It's not the bipod I don't like... it is the spring loaded legs.

I still have that old Harris bipod, bought it new in 1986, or so... It doesn't have the detents on the legs like the newer ones do, you push the button the legs retract all the way in... But you can set it to any height you want by twisting the knob on the button.

I do use it some, but not for hunting or money shots!
 
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bigngreen

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When you set up, get everything set like your going to take the shot but just pull the rifle back like it's recoiling, this is how your gun is going to track while recoiling, you change surfaces it will track different, you change how the rifle interacts with you during recoil it will track differently. What ever surface I shoot of I always check my tracking, if I pull the rifle back and the cross hairs drop or go of the side then I correct my position or rear bag till I get a nice smooth straight. Be aware of the stock tapping your bag hand during recoil or getting so firm and tensed up you bunch the bag up during recoil!
 

Broz

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Just to be clear here. I do believe if you must shoot from a bench there are better choices than a bipod. They simply are stiff and ready to jump on recoil. But if you are a hunter I would tell you this, get off the stinking bench unless you hunt from a hide with a bench. Where I hunt there are no benches, but we always have dirt under our feet. Get down and dirty, dig in and bag up solid. My results doing this are .25 moa if the rifle is capable. Plenty solid if you have good form.

I only slightly preload a bipod. Dig in the feet, then push forward just enough you feel the recoil pad in in the proper place on your shoulder. No big push here, just removing slack that could result in the rifle moving before the bullet leaves the tube. And YES!! this can happen.

Jeff
 

Broz

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One other note to add to the light preload of a bipod. I never pull a rifle to me on set up. I want to move my body forwards to the rifle. If I do pull the rifle back to me I will do so by the legs. Then dig them in again. Simply pulling a rifle to you when on a bipod can start to fold the legs and the result is bad. You want the legs pulled fully back solid and then slight preload forward from your shoulder keeping them there.

Jeff
 

Terry-06

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Thanks all for the replys, appreciate it.. I just need more practice setting up correctly. The video has already helped a bunch.
 

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I have watched this video a number of times.I have just finished load development on a new/rebuilt rifle. I have outfitted the rifle with bipod. I have made ..purchased.. otherwise aquired numerous rear bags to help me competently shot accurately from the prone position.
I made a cell phone video of myself this past weekend to self critique my form.
I am shooting consistantly 1/2 moa or less at 200yds of the bench and bags with this rifle and seem to be able to only manage slightly less than 1 moa prone and in the dirt.
So i have some work to do.
I will be moving my shooting to the the 600yd range here very shortly to see how my handloads perform against my ballistics program.
I still have not been able to spot my shots, (but i have only been out to 200yds)
I have noticed that the bipod legs (evolution with spikes) are tearing holes in the ground after each shot so my position is changing some after every shot.

Do you think i need more loading of the bipod, less, more cheek weld , drier dirt..

Oh btw , i just put on a rear bipod. So far i like it it, but really has improved my accuracy like i hoped.

Sorry for the long post, any opinions would be welcome
thx
 

Broz

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gpsman, what rifle, rifle weight, Brake, optic , cartridge and bullet weight ?

All I use is a light preload to the shoulder, just enough to feel the recoil pad is in place. Then just a little pull back with the lower 3 fingers below the trigger finger to remove all slack. Don't muscle the rifle though. Do not tense up.

Make note of if the rifle is going left or right after recoil. If it is, shoulder placement of the recoil pad and getting straighter behind the rifle will help.

Jeff
 

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Shooting 212gn eldx over 75.4gn H1000, WLMR primers, WW brass
Rem 700 LA SS blueprinted, 300WM
26" Mullerworks 5R 10T in 300 WM Kampfeld barrel fluting
jewel trigger/2lb
APA Micro Bastard MB
Vortex 5-25x50 genII PST
Vortex precision matched rings
hs precision pro 200 thumbhole
CTK P3 Monopod w/spikes 8-11 in legs
evolution-w/spikes 8-11 in legs
Cerakote in Sniper Gray
 

Broz

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Shooting 212gn eldx over 75.4gn H1000, WLMR primers, WW brass
Rem 700 LA SS blueprinted, 300WM
26" Mullerworks 5R 10T in 300 WM Kampfeld barrel fluting
jewel trigger/2lb
APA Micro Bastard MB
Vortex 5-25x50 genII PST
Vortex precision matched rings
hs precision pro 200 thumbhole
CTK P3 Monopod w/spikes 8-11 in legs
evolution-w/spikes 8-11 in legs
Cerakote in Sniper Gray
Darn, not familiar with that brake. Try this, dig a trench for your bipod legs to sit in in an effort to lower the front of the rifle and in result lower the rear of the rifle too. I am hoping this will get your body weight lower and chest closer to the ground. I am going on a hunch, that at only 200 yards your bipod legs may be a little long for a comfortable position on the rifle.

I do this when zeroing at my 100 yard target.

Does the scope go black after recoil or just relocate?

Jeff
 

gspman

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Broz, thanks for the replay ..to me it seems be recoiling mostly straight back, cant really tell from my cell video...bad angle
I need to have someone film me after i load some more rounds to play with.
 

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Yes, the scope does relocate if i understand the question correctly, after shot scope crosshairs are settled on different point of aim from when i broke the shot.
 

Broz

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Yes, the scope does relocate if i understand the question correctly, after shot scope crosshairs are settled on different point of aim from when i broke the shot.
Yes, and some of this is normal as you can't get all recoil contained to return to a dead center point of aim at 200

But I was wanting to know if the optic field of view stays full after recoil, or if it blacks out or partly blacks out after the recoil. Just wanting to see if we are addressing staying in the eye box of the scope as in cheek weld or just follow through.
 

Broz

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Also, once on target, before you break the trigger. Close your eyes and count to 3 or so then open them. If the cross hairs are not staying put during this time, you may be muscling the rifle too much, or have pre-load between your bi-pod legs pushing you left or right, or just not a good solid rear bag platform. Remember, adjust the rear bag so the cross hairs are a little below aim point, then the last movement is to settle the rifle stock into the bag which will bring the cross hairs up to aim point. This give a better rear platform than doing this in reverse.

Jeff
 

gspman

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Will Do,
I will pay more attention to the optic field of view to see if it stays full after recoil, or if it blacks out or partly blacks out after the recoil.
 

Tony Trietch

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Some great tips on here! This is exactly what I was looking for.
 

Lonewolf74

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Just found this thread and it has me thinking about a question. I have fairly often where I get a double group and I've realized that it's me causing it due to canting the rifle. The problem is during the recoil impulse the rifle cants slightly to the right. The rifle does slightly jump right but I am still able to see impact so it's not much but either way after recoil my rifle is usually left just slightly canted right. Sometimes I correct the cant sometimes I don't thus the double group.

I know I need to pay closer attention to this at each shot but it be even better to stop this cant from happening in the first place, so any ideas on what I can look for to figure out why it happens?
 

Broz

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Yes!! After you are on target, close your eyes for a few seconds. Then open them. If you are off target figure out if you are applying muscle to hold aim point. If so relieve the opposing tension. IE twist the bipod, or move the rear bag so the rifle is inclined to stay on target by itself.

If that is not it try getting straighter behind the rifle. You could be inducing an angle under recoil.

Jeff
 

OSOK - Crash

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Jeff, have you ever thought of making one of these video's while shooting from sitting with sticks? Midwest hunters will be shooting from tree stands and shooting boxes. Just a thought on how things would differ from prone.
 

Broz

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Jeff, have you ever thought of making one of these video's while shooting from sitting with sticks? Midwest hunters will be shooting from tree stands and shooting boxes. Just a thought on how things would differ from prone.
Since 99% of my shots are prone, I don't feel I would be a great person to advise best form from sitting. I am sure there are better shooter to do so in that position.

Jeff
 

Diverjeff

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Here I did a little video on what I do to set up for a long range prone shot. I get asked this a lot, and I thought a video might be an easier way to show my procedure. Check it out then ask questions or comment here.

Long Range Prone Position and Form - Long Range Only

Thanks!

Jeff
Hi Jeff,

Have been watching your videos for months and nice to be able to put a face to them after joining your site yesterday.I first became interested in the Bergers while watching the Mark and Sam videos as I think that's pretty much all he uses in all of his rifles and in one of yours where you test the 215 gr. so I bought a 100 rounds last month(60 of the 215 gr. hybrid,20 of the 230 gr. hybrid,and 20 of the 185 gr. Juggernaut)to see how they do in my new Ruger Hawkeye Long Range Target in 300 Win Mag.This Mark dude also seems really knowledgeable on LRS and have watched dozens of his videos and have one of his three port brakes as pictured on the rifle in this video(now if this rain would stop long enough for me to get to a range).

Jeff

Extreme Long range prone shooting technique - YouTube

 

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