Order or operations for tuning

[Alex Wheeler]

This is how I do it if I am starting with a new rifle and have no previous experiance with the cartridge. Fire all the brass with a mild load.

First would be a pressure ladder with as many powders as I have on hand. I will look in quick load and find a max and run my ladder up to that or a little over. All I am looking for is what powder looks best.

Second would be a primer test, unless the day one ladder looked really good. To test primers, you need to cover a range of powder. They move the node so you need to load little ladders with each primer around the window you found on day one.

Third would be 3 shot groups with powder charges, around .5% increments

Fourth would be seating depth, .005 to rough in then .002 or .001 to fine tune. You can do .010 if you looking for the bigger jumps out about .050 then fine tune.

Fifth would be neck tension. You can test your final load with just changing bushings. This does not seem to move the node.

last would be a visit to powder again to see if it changed. As the rifle wears and weather changes you will need to visit powder and seating to stay in tune.

Now, all of this can change based on what you see. If nothing looked good right away you may need to jump to seating, neck tension, or primers on the second day. You have to learn what a "tunable" target looks like. Some things are not fixable and you need to move on. The main thing is to find the right components as soon as possible. If you have the powder, bullet, primer combo, that the barrel likes tuning will be a breeze. Forcing it to shoot a component it does not like will not end well.

If you know the cartridge well, you can skip some steps. You may already know the powder and primer it will like and can jump right in to tuning. But if its a new rifle you still should do it. Actions pick primers as much as powders do.

Using that early barrel life to pick components is probably one of the best things I can pass on. You dont want to tune too soon, but if you can figure out the best powder and primer to use in that early life tuning will go much easier once the barrel settles down.

 

[Broz]

Thank you Alex. I am going to make all these tuning guides a sticky thread in the precision hand loading forum so they can be found easily

 

[Spreedizzle]

As I finally got some rounds through my new Fierce Rival in 300PRC….glad to see this from you as a blueprint for success. Hornady brass once shot….and the fun will soon begin!!

 

[Bfish22]

Alex, you don’t mention ideal yardage to tune from, but I think I read you do this at 1000 yards? For those of us without 1000 yard ranges or experience shooting that distance, is it best to be the farthest out that we are comfortable and confident at? My comfort zone is 300-400 just because of how my range is set up, but could get out to 750 or so.

 

[Okie man]

The timing couldn’t be better for this information. I finally was able to obtain some 156 grain bergers for my 6.5 prc. I have 3 powders, 3 types of primers and some once fired lapua and Peterson brass. With 200 plus rounds down the tube I think I’m ready to see what I can get out of the rifle.

 

[-CRASH]

@Alex Wheeler, can you go into more details on what a "tunable target" looks like?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex, you don’t mention ideal yardage to tune from, but I think I read you do this at 1000 yards? For those of us without 1000 yard ranges or experience shooting that distance, is it best to be the farthest out that we are comfortable and confident at? My comfort zone is 300-400 just because of how my range is set up, but could get out to 750 or so.

The max range you would ever shoot an animal. Personally I wouldnt shoot an animal at 1k, but I still tune the bigger stuff there. The smaller stuff I do at 600.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

@Alex Wheeler, can you go into more details on what a "tunable target" looks like?

Thats not one that easy to explain in words. It takes experiance. The way the ladder is shaped and the way the groups form. I like to see a narrow ladder that climbs and stops. Width is not good, up and down is not good.

 

[JBahr]

With component availability these days, is primer testing imperative? I understand how it can affect the node, but won't you still identify a node regardless? Also what are everyone's thoughts on the Cartridge Guides reducing the learning curve on a "New to you cartridge/gun".

Still tuning in my first custom 6.5 PRC and about to start a 30 Nos DE+P.

 

[matt_3479]

Thanks Alex. I’ll definitely be giving this a try with the next 2. Will be starting once firing my brass on Thursday and then right into testing Friday if this storm passes

 

[Yoteklr]

This is how I do it if I am starting with a new rifle and have no previous experiance with the cartridge. Fire all the brass with a mild load.

First would be a pressure ladder with as many powders as I have on hand. I will look in quick load and find a max and run my ladder up to that or a little over. All I am looking for is what powder looks best.

Second would be a primer test, unless the day one ladder looked really good. To test primers, you need to cover a range of powder. They move the node so you need to load little ladders with each primer around the window you found on day one.

Third would be 3 shot groups with powder charges, around .5% increments

Fourth would be seating depth, .005 to rough in then .002 or .001 to fine tune. You can do .010 if you looking for the bigger jumps out about .050 then fine tune.

Fifth would be neck tension. You can test your final load with just changing bushings. This does not seem to move the node.

last would be a visit to powder again to see if it changed. As the rifle wears and weather changes you will need to visit powder and seating to stay in tune.

Now, all of this can change based on what you see. If nothing looked good right away you may need to jump to seating, neck tension, or primers on the second day. You have to learn what a "tunable" target looks like. Some things are not fixable and you need to move on. The main thing is to find the right components as soon as possible. If you have the powder, bullet, primer combo, that the barrel likes tuning will be a breeze. Forcing it to shoot a component it does not like will not end well.

If you know the cartridge well, you can skip some steps. You may already know the powder and primer it will like and can jump right in to tuning. But if its a new rifle you still should do it. Actions pick primers as much as powders do.

Using that early barrel life to pick components is probably one of the best things I can pass on. You dont want to tune too soon, but if you can figure out the best powder and primer to use in that early life tuning will go much easier once the barrel settles down.

Alex, do you clean the bore between powders on step one , (pressure test)?

 

[EddieNel]

Great thread! Definitely following.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

With component availability these days, is primer testing imperative? I understand how it can affect the node, but won't you still identify a node regardless? Also what are everyone's thoughts on the Cartridge Guides reducing the learning curve on a "New to you cartridge/gun".

Still tuning in my first custom 6.5 PRC and about to start a 30 Nos DE+P.

If your getting good accuracy then you dont have to.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex, do you clean the bore between powders on step one , (pressure test)?

No, but some guys do. Im just roughing in at that point so I dont worry about it.

 

[ShtrRdy]

If you only have a 100 yard range to shoot at, can you comment on how you would approach load development?

 

[62flint]

How many rounds do you shoot to find the load?

 

[Masterdunbar]

@Alex Wheeler this is slightly off subject to load development but you do mention early barrel life and the first 100 rounds. Do you do any sort of barrel break in during that process ? Not asking what your process is if you do….just curious if you do or don’t feel it is necessary

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If you only have a 100 yard range to shoot at, can you comment on how you would approach load development?

Theres a lot of popular methods out there, owc, Cortinas method, Boyers, ext. I have not tuned a rifle at 100 yards in over 15 years, so Im not about to give advice there.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

How many rounds do you shoot to find the load?

As many as it takes. Sometime you get lucky and start off with the right combo and sometimes you dont. I will fight a hunting rifle longer than a know cartridge in a comp rifle. But after a few different combos it starts to make more sense to replace the barrel.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

@Alex Wheeler this is slightly off subject to load development but you do mention early barrel life and the first 100 rounds. Do you do any sort of barrel break in during that process ? Not asking what your process is if you do….just curious if you do or don’t feel it is necessary

No. These are quality barrels with quality throats. The throat and the lapped surface of the barrel does smooth out when you shoot them. You can see this with a bore scope. Doesnt matter what you do, its going to happen. So I just shoot them like normal. But I dont start tuning until after that happens. That early life is good for picking components. You can figure out the best powder and primer, even a range for seating. But you dont start actual tuning until after the barrel speeds up. You can, but most likely it will change and you will have to retune and Im over that.

 

[Wired2Hunt]

Awesome thread that I know ill help me in the future. Thanks for sharing the information!

How important is your chrono when developing a load for a hunting rifle? I currently use a cheaper one, but have considered updating to a Labradar. But I also know that the target does not lie.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I only look at the chrony for know my velocity for dope. It has no use for tuning. Obviously if your es was crazy like 50+ you would want to look into why. But anything reasonable is fine.

 

[Flyjunky12]

Thanks Alex, great info.

How far off the lands do you start your seating depth? 5 or 10 thou off and go from there?

 

[barefooter56]

There are SOOOOOOO....many ways around this barn! At BERGER we all do the bullet seating depth testing first to set up the bullet depth into the cartridge case. THEN do the velocity load testing. This can be done in some cases depending on the length action you have if you want to load magazine length ammunition. But is mostly done with single shot target rifles. All testing is done at 100 yards . Then tested and tweaked if necessary, at longer yardages.
BERGER VLD LOAD DEVELOPMENT INFO is here: Berger Bullets | VLD - Making it Shoot
BERGER tangent ogive bullets like the FB and BT TARGET along with SOME OTM bullets are usually very tolerant of jump. We suggest that if you are doing any bullet seating depth testing that you start with the bullet TOUCHING THE LANDS. Then work BACK INTO THE CARTRIDGE CASE in .005 or .010 increments using the starting powder charge listed for the bullet/ powder/ cartridge combination you are loading.
A general rule of thumb with the Berger Elite Hunter and Hybrid Target bullets is to start your bullet seating depth testing at .015" off the lands. Then you work back into the cartridge case in .015" increments (.015",.030", .045", .060"). When you find a bullet seating depth that shows promise, you can test .005" to either side of that CBTO if you wish to see if accuracy can be improved. All bullet seating depth testing is done using the starting powder charge!
In most cases with the Classic Hunter and 6.5mm OTM Hybrid bullets, your load development will just consist of seating the bullet to the published magazine length (COAL) of the cartridge you are loading. Then, work the powder charge up slowly checking for pressure signs and accuracy until you find a velocity accuracy node you wish to use or your highest velocity accuracy node is found. If you have any more questions, please feel free to contact us at any time.

 

[Darkside]

Thanks Alex.
After years of not knowing any better.
I have been trying to learn how to tune my loads. I appreciate your help and all the other members help. Thanks David

 

[Triple BB]

Great info...

 

[Dallen0427]

There are SOOOOOOO....many ways around this barn! At BERGER we all do the bullet seating depth testing first to set up the bullet depth into the cartridge case. THEN do the velocity load testing. This can be done in some cases depending on the length action you have if you want to load magazine length ammunition. But is mostly done with single shot target rifles. All testing is done at 100 yards . Then tested and tweaked if necessary, at longer yardages.
BERGER VLD LOAD DEVELOPMENT INFO is here: Berger Bullets | VLD - Making it Shoot
BERGER tangent ogive bullets like the FB and BT TARGET along with SOME OTM bullets are usually very tolerant of jump. We suggest that if you are doing any bullet seating depth testing that you start with the bullet TOUCHING THE LANDS. Then work BACK INTO THE CARTRIDGE CASE in .005 or .010 increments using the starting powder charge listed for the bullet/ powder/ cartridge combination you are loading.
A general rule of thumb with the Berger Elite Hunter and Hybrid Target bullets is to start your bullet seating depth testing at .015" off the lands. Then you work back into the cartridge case in .015" increments (.015",.030", .045", .060"). When you find a bullet seating depth that shows promise, you can test .005" to either side of that CBTO if you wish to see if accuracy can be improved. All bullet seating depth testing is done using the starting powder charge!
In most cases with the Classic Hunter and 6.5mm OTM Hybrid bullets, your load development will just consist of seating the bullet to the published magazine length (COAL) of the cartridge you are loading. Then, work the powder charge up slowly checking for pressure signs and accuracy until you find a velocity accuracy node you wish to use or your highest velocity accuracy node is found. If you have any more questions, please feel free to contact us at any time.

For a given load, once you find a seating depth that works for the rifle, that seating depth will remain consistent regardless of powder charge? (for powder charge testing).

 

[Willys]

For a given load, once you find a seating depth that works for the rifle, that seating depth will remain consistent regardless of powder charge? (for powder charge testing).

In general yes, I sometimes will revisit once I have a final load just tweaking seating +- .001-.003 to see if it tightens.

 

[338edge]

Do you anneal your brass?
Do you graphite necks before seating?

 

[Willys]

Do you anneal your brass?
Do you graphite necks before seating?

Yes I anneal every time - i get more consistent seating pressure (verified with arbor press) and more consistent CBTO . No graphite except on virgin btass. I use stiff nylon brush in cordless and burnish necks for 3 seconds after annealing.