Changing philosophy on trigger pull weight

Timgunner

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I am recently starting to change my feelings about trigger pull weight. I use mostly Jewell triggers in my rifles and have had them all set to about 8oz for the last six years. However

The start of my realization:
Last year I signed up for a handgun hunting competition that required me to do lots of practice with a Smith and wesson 686 357 magnum and a smith and wesson 629 44 magnum. Both handguns are custom shop revolvers with scopes and can hold sub moa groups. After receiving my 686 back from the smith who performed a trigger job and other accuracy work I realized I didn’t know how to shoot anything with a trigger over 1lb. I was so used to cheating bad form with lighter trigger pull that I was a terrible shot with my newly accurized revolver. I knew the problem was me because I was sent a .3” 50yd group fired with open sights on my revolver by the gun smith after the work was done. I knew the gun could shoot but I stunk at shooting it. I called the gunsmith and asked why I sucked. He told asked me a question. “Why do you assume that you are able to pick up a new / unfamiliar platform and be an expert in one day?” I just assumed that since I could shoot well with a rifle that I could with a pistol too.

What I learned:
Pistol shooting magnified my bad trigger control and poor form. I always laughed at guys who talked about their “crisp 3lb trigger pull” I thought I was superior and these jokers were fools who knew nothing about shooting or they would be running 8oz triggers too. I learned that I was unable to pull a trigger without affecting the natural point of aim of the pistol. I lay prone on the floor in my basement dry firing for hours days on end prepping for the handgun hunting competition. I shot my snap caps at my kids toy animals and watched my crosshairs dance all over the place. I had no ideal how to keep the gun still while pulling the trigger.

My second realization:
This spring I met a guy at church who happened to be retired army. He was a sniper and sniper instructor in the army. We hit it off immediately when he told me he owned and AMP annealer and I told him how jealous i was lol; no one else at church could talk about shooting on a level that was interstate to the two of us. We have been shooting a few times and I asked him to criticize my form and show me how I can improve. I brought my switch barrel rifle with a 308 barrel and jewell trigger set at 8oz. When I fired my first round he said you are slapping the trigger. I thought to myself “no I’m not! I know what I’m doing I never slap the trigger!” I fired again and he responded the same way. He then told me stuff I already knew about follow through on the shot. I focused on following through on the next shot and he said I slapped the trigger again. I realized then what was happening. The trigger set off the round with such light pressure that the rifle recoils out from under my finger and i was left with my finger hanging in mid air as if I had slapped the trigger and pulled my finger forward for another go. I wanted to tell my new friend that he was wrong and that I just had a more sophisticated trigger than he was used to and that it was too light to keep my finger held on it after recoil. But instead I held my tongue and acted like I was learning from him. Turns out I was learning…

Putting it all together:
The realization of my bad form on the 308 automatically led into my realization of my bad for on the revolvers. I was full of bad trigger pull habits that needed to change. The change started with a podcast on prs trigger control. The main take away for me was pulling with a 90degree trigger finger. I had been pulling the trigger with the pad of my index finger not the crease forever but I had never taken notice of the angle of my finger or how that angle was affecting or influencing the position of the gun. I realized that my finger position had handicapped my ability to shoot the revovlvers and made using an 8oz trigger necessary.

Perfect practice makes perfect:
I started practicing in my basement with the toy animals and watched as in just a few days of practice my shots began to break more and more steadily. The reticle moved less and less as I got the hang of pulling the trigger with the leverage from a 90degree angle and the strength of the middle joint instead of my the small joint strength and my finger tip at an angle. I set up on my 224 Valkyrie ar it has a great two stage trigger but it is 3lbs. I realized for the first time what trigger reset felt like. My new found trigger technique allowed me to pull a much heavier trigger and not influence the gun in any way. It also gave me rock solid follow through with my finger glued to the trigger till I saw the impact through the scope. After all the time pulling the 2.5lb revolver triggers I learned about how to pull a rifle trigger without messing up the point of aim. Now I have built a muscle memory that needs feedback from the trigger itself. 8oz triggers do not provide the feedback needed to control the shot and maintain proper follow through. I’m sorry to say it but I’m turning all my triggers up to 2lbs. I hope this has been somewhat helpful to someone I thought it was very interested and helpful in my evolving experience and knowledge of shooting.

 
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FURMAN

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Making things harder for the purpose of practice or conditioning may be great for exactly that but it makes zero sense when it’s time to execute. We can do a lot of things to get better such as using less than ideal cartridges like a 308 or 223 to get better at reading the wind but it doesn’t make any sense to use them when it’s time to take game at long distance. The expensive triggers we use that are capable of safely going below one pound are one of the numerous things we stack in our favor to make the most ethical shot we can on game. We owe it to the animal. While I feel 8 oz is too low I for sure feel 2.5 is too heavy. It’s also why I don’t agree with having zero overtravel. Overtravel is a good thing and has zero negative consequences.
 

Timgunner

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Making things harder for the purpose of practice or conditioning may be great for exactly that but it makes zero sense when it’s time to execute. We can do a lot of things to get better such as using less than ideal cartridges like a 308 or 223 to get better at reading the wind but it doesn’t make any sense to use them when it’s time to take game at long distance. The expensive triggers we use that are capable of safely going below one pound are one of the numerous things we stack in our favor to make the most ethical shot we can on game. We owe it to the animal. While I feel 8 oz is too low I for sure feel 2.5 is too heavy. It’s also why I don’t agree with having zero overtravel. Overtravel is a good thing and has zero negative consequences.
I agree with you that making things harder during “game time” is foolish and that is not my goal in increasing the trigger pull on my rifles. I am changing the way I manipulate my hand as well as the way my finger moves the trigger and it necessitates a trigger pull with more feedback. The trigger weight I previously had went off before my brain could register if I was pressing straight back or pull it slightly to the side. I am also still working on improving my trigger management and as I improve I might be able to feel the feedback I need with a lighter trigger. If that ends up being the case I’ll tune the triggers down incrementally to achieve the best balance of weight vs feedback.
 

OSOK - Crash

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This is one area that I have had to get used to with a bolt gun compared to an AR. My Trigger Tech trigger, once pulled and broke, it stops. For me shooting while in the military, my follow through included pulling that trigger slowly after the shot broke. I would release it after all my motion from the recoil settled and stopped.

I am still learning here, so I am guessing that AR's have 2 stage triggers?

I would prefer something like this or overtravel like Ryan mentioned above. Does Trigger Tech offer something like this?
 

Broz

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I think TriggerTech may have released or at least is working on a trigger with over travel. I just installed my first Bix and Andy's trigger with over travel. Unfortunately even though I ordered a single stage, I was sent a two stage. You can adjust the first stage out , well almost, you have to leave a little or it will slam fire when the bolt is close aggressively. I am not use to that little bit of creep from the first stage, but keeping an open mind. I have it just over 1 lb and it breaks pretty clean and I don't even notice the over travel. So I am keeping an open mind. But no bond has been made yet. I am going to reorder today and try to get a single stage in hopes of getting rid of that initial feel of creep from stage 1.

Ryan, I have watched you and your trigger finger many times. I see you finger touch the trigger shoe and back off as you prep for the shot. Is this due to you getting the perfect placement? Or is this you feeling that little creep from stage one of a 2 stage trigger?
 

Ladd

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Here’s my take on the subject. 1 to 1-1/2 lbs trigger pull is the sweet spot for me. I work on good trigger time every chance i can. Having dealt with being gun shy or flinching my entire life I don’t feel cheating is what I would call it. I think of it as the best solution for me to make the best shot I can.

I hope you’re not suggesting I’m a cheater for preferring a trigger under 2 lbs. I have no problem with someone’s opinion on the subject. But I’m not a fan when it begins to classify a person based on their opinion not being the same. Too much of that going on around us.
 

Timgunner

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Here’s my take on the subject. 1 to 1-1/2 lbs trigger pull is the sweet spot for me. I work on good trigger time every chance i can. Having dealt with being gun shy or flinching my entire life I don’t feel cheating is what I would call it. I think of it as the best solution for me to make the best shot I can.

I hope you’re not suggesting I’m a cheater for preferring a trigger under 2 lbs. I have no problem with someone’s opinion on the subject. But I’m not a fan when it begins to classify a person based on their opinion not being the same. Too much of that going on around us.
I thought I was carful to point out that I was the central focus of the trigger control post I made. I was going to post this on Ryan’s thread but I didn’t want anyone to take it the wrong way so I started my own thread. I am only talking about myself and what I learned; I am in no way making any comments about anyone else or their trigger preferences. I felt my experience was positive because I learned something that has made me a better shooter, if someone can learn something from my experience more power to them. I hope no one goes away feeling judged for what I said about me.
 
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FURMAN

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I think TriggerTech may have released or at least is working on a trigger with over travel. I just installed my first Bix and Andy's trigger with over travel. Unfortunately even though I ordered a single stage, I was sent a two stage. You can adjust the first stage out , well almost, you have to leave a little or it will slam fire when the bolt is close aggressively. I am not use to that little bit of creep from the first stage, but keeping an open mind. I have it just over 1 lb and it breaks pretty clean and I don't even notice the over travel. So I am keeping an open mind. But no bond has been made yet. I am going to reorder today and try to get a single stage in hopes of getting rid of that initial feel of creep from stage 1.

Ryan, I have watched you and your trigger finger many times. I see you finger touch the trigger shoe and back off as you prep for the shot. Is this due to you getting the perfect placement? Or is this you feeling that little creep from stage one of a 2 stage trigger?
Trying to get my finger such that I will be pulling directly rearward. My BnA two stages with the first stage adjusted out have no creep. I just increase the sear engagement a little and adjust to feel. We have a Geissele super 700 with the first stage adjust out as well. It has no creep either.
 

Broz

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Trying to get my finger such that I will be pulling directly rearward. My BnA two stages with the first stage adjusted out have no creep. I just increase the sear engagement a little and adjust to feel. We have a Geissele super 700 with the first stage adjust out as well. It has no creep either.

I was all over the place with it on sear and reducing first stage. The choice was to leave a little or it would slam fire when you closed the bolt hard. Or with it all adjusted out you had to increase the sear so much you could feel creep before it broke. I just ordered a single stage Tac Pro in case I need it. But to be honest I shot it fine and never noticed the over travel at all.
 

OSOK - Crash

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I think TriggerTech may have released or at least is working on a trigger with over travel. I just installed my first Bix and Andy's trigger with over travel. Unfortunately even though I ordered a single stage, I was sent a two stage. You can adjust the first stage out , well almost, you have to leave a little or it will slam fire when the bolt is close aggressively. I am not use to that little bit of creep from the first stage, but keeping an open mind. I have it just over 1 lb and it breaks pretty clean and I don't even notice the over travel. So I am keeping an open mind. But no bond has been made yet. I am going to reorder today and try to get a single stage in hopes of getting rid of that initial feel of creep from stage 1.

Ryan, I have watched you and your trigger finger many times. I see you finger touch the trigger shoe and back off as you prep for the shot. Is this due to you getting the perfect placement? Or is this you feeling that little creep from stage one of a 2 stage trigger?
Broz, will you testing the Trigger Tech with overtravel? Or is it something that you don't need to test, having experience with overtravel triggers already?
 

FURMAN

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Broz, will you testing the Trigger Tech with overtravel? Or is it something that you don't need to test, having experience with overtravel triggers already?
I have the only one I’m aware of in existence. It’s by far my favorite Triggertech. I still prefer the amount the BixNAndys have. The BnA also maintains the same pull weight following the trigger break so you don’t slam into the wall.
 

No Name

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A safe, consistent, accurate trigger pull is easy enough with a 3lb trigger. Light triggers breed bad habits.

There is a balance between the grip, the shoulder pressure, and the trigger finger. If that balance is disturbed in favor of any one of the three, then your are compromising good form.

Two stage triggers allow tactile feel while the trigger finger mates to it, giving the trigger finger something to do besides hanging out in space.
 

OSOK - Crash

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I have the only one I’m aware of in existence. It’s by far my favorite Triggertech. I still prefer the amount the BixNAndys have. The BnA also maintains the same pull weight following the trigger break so you don’t slam into the wall.
Ohhhh! That's good. Never thought about the same pull weight after the break.

Is Trigger Tech you are testing a flat shoe, or standard?
 

FURMAN

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There is a reason benchrest, fclass etc rifles have 2 ounce triggers.
 

No Name

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There is a reason benchrest, fclass etc rifles have 2 ounce triggers.
Yes, because they try to touch the rifles as little as possible so as not to disturb it as they recoil straight back on the 3" flat bottom stocks, sand bags and mechanical rests...or 2ft wide bipods with the ski feet.

Is that the game we are talking about?

I thought we were talking about actual marksmanship fundamentals.
 

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I thought I was carful to point out that I was the central focus of the trigger control post I made. I was going to post this on Ryan’s thread but I didn’t want anyone to take it the wrong way so I started my own thread. I am only talking about myself and what I learned; I am in no way making any comments about anyone else or their trigger preferences. I felt my experience was positive because I learned something that has made me a better shooter, if someone can learn something from my experience more power to them. I hope no one goes away feeling judged for what I said about me.
You did pretty good. I’m just overly sensitive to words and phrases these days that insinuate being on the wrong side of an opinion making one seam less than respectable.
 
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Timgunner

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You did pretty good. I’m just overly sensitive to words and phrases these days that insinuate being on the wrong side of an opinion making one seam less than respectable.
Have no fear my friend. I’m here to have fun talking about the hobby I enjoy and learn what I can along the way. I have no interest in comparing manhood with anyone or any other form of immature comparisons to try and make myself seem superior. I’m happy to just be alive and able to do what we do and being able to share experiences with like minded folks from all over is just icing on the cake.
 

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Well first thanks for your info !
In my eyes everyone reading this will have a different idea of what is right and wrong. We all injoy the different products out there . That's why they make them .
I injoy the info shared on this Forum just as much as the next guy.
Some of the posters are well experienced in lots of different products. I'm a Shooter and a Hunter . Yes I have done some Amazing shots on steel at very long distances. I have been scolded a time or two also .
It's my belief that all of us are different in likes and wants .
I cant shoot a 8 0z. trigger ..my fingers are wore out from Construction . I keep mine around 2 lbs. but it's just my way of being safe and comfortable.

In the end we all have opinions on the best or worst in things .
It's great to be with lots of shooters with endless experience and info here !

Again Thanks for all you guys Post here !

Rum Man
 

Broz

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I get in many rifles with TriggerTech triggers. They all break clean and crisp. But they arrive usually 3 lbs plus for pull weight. I have practiced good form for years. I feel "good form" may differ between shooters to a degree. IE, Injuries, age, physical condition and so on. We can work towards the textbook form, but we may need to alter it slightly in some cases. IE, my being 6'2" 220 lbs, a broken back and many other bones to many to count. But my point is this. I shoot big magnums with good brakes. I pride myself in the ability to spot my own shots all the way out. I watch my own vapor trails and impacts through the scope. That is unless I get sloppy. But when I shoot groups with those 3 lb + triggers, then lighten them to 1.25 to 1.5 lbs. My groups tighten. In my unprofessional opinion, the trigger finger is not the place to use more force and muscle. As for that finger hanging there with nothing to do. That's not the case with me. When I instruct shooters, I teach to feel the cold steel of the trigger on the pad of the finger, then while concentrating on the aim point, slowly squeeze and be aware of follow through. This is what I do myself. Bottom line is, with all things the same, rifle trigger and ammo. After I back off the pull weight, the groups always tighten. Seen it for years and years from Hunting rifles to ELR rigs.
JMO , YMMV

Jeff
 

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I just put a Trigger tech in my new 338 ultra build . I'm excited to try it out . I'm headed into new territory with the 250 gr bergers . I have tons of experience with the 300 gr bergers. This new Rum has a 24" Carbon barrel ...time and testing we will find out what she likes ! I'm going to try both bergers out ! Re'26 , H-1000 , Re-33 , Nv570 to try for powders .

Rum Man
 

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I'm not saying a trigger has to be 3+lbs...

But if the trigger is light enough that it necessitates a change in technique to accomodate it, then the equipment is driving the shooter rather than the shooter driving the equipment.

The perceived diference between 1/4" and 1" groups from a bench, evaporates in the field. I've never missed an animal or piece of steel due to any trigger pull.

Edit: I take that back...I have missed small varmints at 400+ yards due to trigger pull, but none others I can remember.
 

Broz

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I'm not saying a trigger has to be 3+lbs...

But if the trigger is light enough that it necessitates a change in technique to accomodate it, then the equipment is driving the shooter rather than the shooter driving the equipment.

The perceived diference between 1/4" and 1" groups from a bench, evaporates in the field. I've never missed an animal or piece of steel due to any trigger pull.

Edit: I take that back...I have missed small varmints at 400+ yards due to trigger pull, but none others I can remember.
I agree that too light it becomes a situation where too much care is needed in the field and can result in the shot being sent before the que. For me that would be well under 1 lb. 1 lb, to 1.25 lb is my sweet spot. Over 2 lbs and the trigger can also drive the shooter. Nothing worse for me than the feeling "When will it go" on a trigger pull. That can really screw with concentration.

I think we all can agree that field conditions are much less than perfect for rifle set up than a solid bench or perfect prone set up. In a less than stellar field set up, in my opinion, less pull will be better, with in reason. Again I am talking 1 lb as apposed to 3. Especially with light rifles. As far as accuracy, I strive for all I can get. .5 Moa from aim point on a deer at 1000 yards can make a difference in how far you track them and the same applies to elk as they are among the toughest animals I have hunted. Now I realize there are bigger things to consider, such as wind reading skills at that distance, but damaged hearts make for short tracks.
 

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I'm not saying a trigger has to be 3+lbs...

But if the trigger is light enough that it necessitates a change in technique to accomodate it, then the equipment is driving the shooter rather than the shooter driving the equipment.

The perceived diference between 1/4" and 1" groups from a bench, evaporates in the field. I've never missed an animal or piece of steel due to any trigger pull.

Edit: I take that back...I have missed small varmints at 400+ yards due to trigger pull, but none others I can remember.
Part two to this:

I'm not an advocate of mixing disciplines.

If you are going to benchrest then benchrest...If you are going to PRS then PRS...If you a going to hunt then hunt.

In each case choose equipment up to the task, taking note of benefits and drawbacks of the associated equipment.

An intricate match trigger with its small parts and fine sear engagement might not be the thing to bet a hunt on when 10,000 feet up a mountain in a freezing rain.

I've seen these same triggers go down on the firing line during a longrange class when the wind was filling actions full of blown moon dust. So much so, that the instructor was passing bottles of lighter fluid up and down the line to flush out triggers.

Something like a smoothed up stock Winchester model 70 trigger might not be sexy, but it just might be the thing you need. I'm not advocating M70's. I'm using them as an example to make a point since triggers don't get much simpler than that.

Consider the need...pick equipment that fulfills that need reliably...then learn to manage that equipment.

Rant off.
 

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The biggest thing for me and triggers is I have to treat each shooting discipline separately. Hunting Rifle, Target Rifle, Handgun, Shotgun, and to some degree archery release.

My hunting rifles are set at 1lbs. and currently my target rifles are as well. My f-open rifle being built right now will be 8 oz. pull when it gets done.

Handguns are their own animal, DA revolvers take a lot of practice to learn a smooth trigger pull, my comp handguns are DA/SA beretta 92's with trigger work that are shot under stress of a timer. Sub 4lb SA handgun triggers are what I consider great. I love DA because it is a challenge.

My shotgun triggers are slapped during the swing through. My archery release (Stan SX-3) is the finest trigger I own even compared to my firearms triggers. You'll punch yourself in the nose if you get near that one during the draw stroke. I had to do that twice before learning my lesson!!

So yeah, for me the best thing was to treat each shooting discipline separately and not try to utilize one discipline's tactics for another.
 

FURMAN

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If you can not tell the difference between a .25moa rifle and a 1 Moa rifle I have to question your skills. I can sure tell. Everything the long range hunting community has as far as equipment has roots in some form of competition. Most of our better stocks for example replicate Benchrest or fclass stocks while getting rid of the parts we can live without to save weight. The Benchrest community has also done a lot to advance the rest of our equipment including but not limited to bullets, dies, presses, scales, etc. I think you are naive if you think the equipment and skills used in those disciplines do not spill over into long range hunting. You do not have to be an "advocate" of mixing disciplines whatever that means but the fact is they all are interchangeable as far as the equipment and skills required to be successful. I will continue to practice like I play.
 

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If you can not tell the difference between a .25moa rifle and a 1 Moa rifle I have to question your skills. I can sure tell. Everything the long range hunting community has as far as equipment has roots in some form of competition. Most of our better stocks for example replicate Benchrest or fclass stocks while getting rid of the parts we can live without to save weight. The Benchrest community has also done a lot to advance the rest of our equipment including but not limited to bullets, dies, presses, scales, etc. I think you are naive if you think the equipment and skills used in those disciplines do not spill over into long range hunting. You do not have to be an "advocate" of mixing disciplines whatever that means but the fact is they all are interchangeable as far as the equipment and skills required to be successful. I will continue to practice like I play.
You really don't like dissenting opinions do you? 🤣
 
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No Name

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If you can not tell the difference between a .25moa rifle and a 1 Moa rifle I have to question your skills. I can sure tell.
Although I have bigger guns, I generally shoot a 308Win because it is my sentimental favorite and I have decades of experience with it. When I go to classes, I shoot against many 6mm's and 6.5's out to 1K-1200 yds and hold my own very well.

The only time I went to Africa, and after all our animals were harvested, my partner and I were invited to go on a cull hunt for the ranch...for free...to assist them with and order they had for meat. This was after the PH watched us cleanly dispatch animals in 15mph winds, from 400 yds out to 700+ yds with our 30-06's.

Being a large meat order, all culls necessitated head shots. We shot a total of 35 springbok for the ranch that day, so my skills and experience would do for most...

But being able to pick the fly specks out of the pepper between a 1/4 minute (if there really is such a thing in a hunting rifle) and an honest 1 minute rifle at distance...aaaand be able to discern and correctly attribute the subtle effects between trigger pulls and wind calls on a distant target under field conditions....that would be a neat trick.
 

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Being a former pistol competitor, I have had to deal with significantly different trigger weights due to specific rules. I've shot .45 Ball with a trigger weight of 4.5 pound, conventional pistol, air pistol, and Free Pistol with an unrestricted trigger weight.

All my rifles differ, and some of my battle rifles have triggers over 8 pounds.

One thing I've learned from pistol shooting is to match your grip strength to your trigger pull weight.

If you have a heavy trigger - use a firm grip. It's a function of how the muscles in your hand and finger are related.
 

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I am recently starting to change my feelings about trigger pull weight. I use mostly Jewell triggers in my rifles and have had them all set to about 8oz for the last six years. However

The start of my realization:
Last year I signed up for a handgun hunting competition that required me to do lots of practice with a Smith and wesson 686 357 magnum and a smith and wesson 629 44 magnum. Both handguns are custom shop revolvers with scopes and can hold sub moa groups. After receiving my 686 back from the smith who performed a trigger job and other accuracy work I realized I didn’t know how to shoot anything with a trigger over 1lb. I was so used to cheating bad form with lighter trigger pull that I was a terrible shot with my newly accurized revolver. I knew the problem was me because I was sent a .3” 50yd group fired with open sights on my revolver by the gun smith after the work was done. I knew the gun could shoot but I stunk at shooting it. I called the gunsmith and asked why I sucked. He told asked me a question. “Why do you assume that you are able to pick up a new / unfamiliar platform and be an expert in one day?” I just assumed that since I could shoot well with a rifle that I could with a pistol too.

What I learned:
Pistol shooting magnified my bad trigger control and poor form. I always laughed at guys who talked about their “crisp 3lb trigger pull” I thought I was superior and these jokers were fools who knew nothing about shooting or they would be running 8oz triggers too. I learned that I was unable to pull a trigger without affecting the natural point of aim of the pistol. I lay prone on the floor in my basement dry firing for hours days on end prepping for the handgun hunting competition. I shot my snap caps at my kids toy animals and watched my crosshairs dance all over the place. I had no ideal how to keep the gun still while pulling the trigger.

My second realization:
This spring I met a guy at church who happened to be retired army. He was a sniper and sniper instructor in the army. We hit it off immediately when he told me he owned and AMP annealer and I told him how jealous i was lol; no one else at church could talk about shooting on a level that was interstate to the two of us. We have been shooting a few times and I asked him to criticize my form and show me how I can improve. I brought my switch barrel rifle with a 308 barrel and jewell trigger set at 8oz. When I fired my first round he said you are slapping the trigger. I thought to myself “no I’m not! I know what I’m doing I never slap the trigger!” I fired again and he responded the same way. He then told me stuff I already knew about follow through on the shot. I focused on following through on the next shot and he said I slapped the trigger again. I realized then what was happening. The trigger set off the round with such light pressure that the rifle recoils out from under my finger and i was left with my finger hanging in mid air as if I had slapped the trigger and pulled my finger forward for another go. I wanted to tell my new friend that he was wrong and that I just had a more sophisticated trigger than he was used to and that it was too light to keep my finger held on it after recoil. But instead I held my tongue and acted like I was learning from him. Turns out I was learning…

Putting it all together:
The realization of my bad form on the 308 automatically led into my realization of my bad for on the revolvers. I was full of bad trigger pull habits that needed to change. The change started with a podcast on prs trigger control. The main take away for me was pulling with a 90degree trigger finger. I had been pulling the trigger with the pad of my index finger not the crease forever but I had never taken notice of the angle of my finger or how that angle was affecting or influencing the position of the gun. I realized that my finger position had handicapped my ability to shoot the revovlvers and made using an 8oz trigger necessary.

Perfect practice makes perfect:
I started practicing in my basement with the toy animals and watched as in just a few days of practice my shots began to break more and more steadily. The reticle moved less and less as I got the hang of pulling the trigger with the leverage from a 90degree angle and the strength of the middle joint instead of my the small joint strength and my finger tip at an angle. I set up on my 224 Valkyrie ar it has a great two stage trigger but it is 3lbs. I realized for the first time what trigger reset felt like. My new found trigger technique allowed me to pull a much heavier trigger and not influence the gun in any way. It also gave me rock solid follow through with my finger glued to the trigger till I saw the impact through the scope. After all the time pulling the 2.5lb revolver triggers I learned about how to pull a rifle trigger without messing up the point of aim. Now I have built a muscle memory that needs feedback from the trigger itself. 8oz triggers do not provide the feedback needed to control the shot and maintain proper follow through. I’m sorry to say it but I’m turning all my triggers up to 2lbs. I hope this has been somewhat helpful to someone I thought it was very interested and helpful in my evolving experience and knowledge of shooting.
Welcome to pistol competition , its extremely hard and takes continual practice, you can loose much by not staying with it.

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Broz

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The perceived diference between 1/4" and 1" groups from a bench, evaporates in the field. I've never missed an animal or piece of steel due to any trigger pull.


There is an element of the accuracy discussion that is not getting transferred. I truly believe that all shooters in this discussion would clearly see the difference between a .25 moa rifle and a 1 moa rifle. We know for fact there are rifles that will shoot .25 on a regular basis. That doesn't imply all that are claimed to be .25 rifle are. But they are out there and I have owned a few and shot a few. I am sorry, but I am missing something. I guess you are saying that the field rest or set up would not be good enough to tell the difference? I have to apologize but I disagree. Yes there would be risky set ups where the accuracy would suffer that much. But I have shot many many match targets and game where I for sure would see a loss of .75 moa. in accuracy. That would be a miss for a center hold on a 12" target at 1000. Assuming the rifle is dialed in and wind is in check. And again I feel the point was, if indeed the trigger was the full blame for accuracy loss. But never the less, the thought of not being able to see the difference from the accuracy loss is a hard one to swallow. So I really believe the translation of the point was lost in the description. I promise you I can set up prone in the dirt and see the difference in a .25 rifle and a 1 moa rifle at distance. My favorite position is dug in prone in the dirt for a field condition set up. And I like that position because it is rock solid.
 
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Broz

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Showing my age here. Yeah I have been at this a while too. But I also use to be a decent shot with a pistol. I have a few of these from different places back when I shot pistol comps. Every single match revolver I had sported a tuned trigger that also has a reduced pull weight.

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Broz

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There are many disciplines especially in comps. We use what we prefer or are best at. So there will be differences as well in the field and hunting. But I know for a fact that precision can be achieved in the field. Dependent on shot distance, surely both may yield the same results. That being meat in the freezer. But as shot distance grows, precision of better than 1 moa will produce more rewards. That is fact.
 

Timgunner

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Welcome to pistol competition , its extremely hard and takes continual practice, you can loose much by not staying with it.

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I noticed that pistol shooting muscle memory is a skill set that degrades very fast when I’m not proactive about maintaining it. I never got very good at double action but I made huge improvement the more and more I practice.
 

Timgunner

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I want to make my experience more clear and understandable. Here is an attempt at communicating better what I meant in my original post. Rifle shooting is so much easier than pistol shooting. You are talking about a vastly different physical relationship. The relationship I’m talking about is the relationship of the weapon and it’s overall mass to the force required to set off a round. We all probably remember from middle school physics that an object at rest will stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force and the force needed to move the object increases proportionally with the mass and the coefficients of friction between that object and its surroundings, ie the bipod or support holding the rifle. So… When I pull the trigger on my 17lb rifle that is planted in the dirt on a bipod and a rear bag with my whole body in contact with the earth it is very stable and the force needed to manipulate the trigger is minuscule at only 1/34 of the weight of the rifle itself. But, When I shoot my 2 1/2 pound revolver floating in the air being held in place by only my muscles and skeletal structure and I pull the trigger, which requires twice the weight of the pistol to break, I have a completely different experience. It really highlights any weakness in trigger pull mechanics. The almost unnoticeable side to side movements caused by poor trigger manipulation in rifle shooting show up as a complete miss with a pistol. When I learned how to control the pistol while pulling several pounds of weight with my trigger finger it taught me to do better on my rifle. The problem was that I couldn’t “feel” the 8oz target trigger before it broke. And I needed to increase the pull weight to know if I was going to induce any side to side movement when the shot broke. Mind you these are very very small movements, but in long range shooting we deal with very very small numbers. I mean .25moa is one 240th of one degree, imagine trying to divide a circle into 360 pieces and then divide each peace into 240 more pieces. We are dealing with very small movements making noticeable differences at long ranges.
 

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Shooting a double action or striker fired pistol will undoubtedly make you a better rifle shot. This coming from a CLEET Firearms Instructor in OK.

Good pistol shooters are good long gun shooters for the most part. The other way around is not always true.
 

jkv45

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Shooting a double action or striker fired pistol will undoubtedly make you a better rifle shot. This coming from a CLEET Firearms Instructor in OK.

Good pistol shooters are good long gun shooters for the most part. The other way around is not always true.
Shooting airguns is also good training.

As a coach for junior air rifle and air pistol, I would always see our students do well when transitioning to firearms. Shooting airguns gives you very little room for rough trigger-work, and the students never had any issues with trigger control.

One-handed competitive pistol shooting is challenging, but the distances (10M for air pistol to 50M for Free Pistol) and scoring ring size are designed to compensate for the decreased stability of the position. Still, precise trigger technique is critical for success.
 
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Stog

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Shooting airguns is also good training.

As a coach for junior air rifle and air pistol, I would always see our students do well when transitioning to firearms. Shooting airguns gives you very little room for rough trigger-work, and the students never had any issues with trigger control.

One-handed competitive pistol shooting is challenging, but the distances (10M for air pistol to 50M for Free Pistol) and scoring ring size are designed to compensate for the decreased stability of the position. Still, precise trigger technique is critical for success.
 

Stog

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When you are in the zone and its time to act, pull weight is what you are comfortable with and meets your expectations. Be that 3 lbs or .5 lbds.
I am partial to a less than 1 lb. pull weight.
Doesnt make it correct. Just makes it right for me.
To each his own...👌
 

Stog

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When you are in the zone and its time to act, pull weight is what you are comfortable with and meets your expectations. Be that 3 lbs or .5 lbds.
I am partial to a less than 1 lb. pull weight.
Doesnt make it correct. Just makes it right for me.
To each his own...👌
I should add, I find that if im behind them enough, i wait for them all to break.
Never had one yet that was perfect. Likely just me.
 

Dirtrax

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I shot IPSC and IHMSA for years (years ago) and achieved above average results with a semi-auto and a revolver. IMHO handguns and rifles are completely different animals physically requiring different mechanics. The mental aspect remains the same. Get control of your head and the hand will soon follow.
 

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Since I’m a heavy trigger guy, I’ll throw in my $.02.

I got into long range hunting for the express purpose of earning more coyote money… that’s how I paid for college. The coyotes where I lived were fairly call shy and would often hang up between 400 and 700 yards… fast paced, dynamic shooting situations.

Most of my shooting was from a sitting position from bipod. That enabled me to make long shots, while still reacting to the 20 yard fly by. I spent hundreds of hours developing my loads, equipment and shooting techniques to maximize my harvest.

Shooting groups at long range quickly revealed that I could shoot smaller groups with a lighter trigger. The lighter the better. Over the summer I got down into the ounces and was super excited about all the money I was going to make. Then December rolled around. Cold hands… dirt, mud, frozen guns, blood… it was a sh$$ show. Between the gun going off before I was settled because I couldn’t feel the trigger, or not going off because it was froze up, or just excessive adrenaline causing yip fires… I was loosing money hand over fist.

I couldn’t wait to get that trigger back up to 2 lbs. that’s where I’ve stayed. It is certainly a compromise between what I want for shear accuracy and what works for me in the actual chaos that follows me in the field :)


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