Wondering why the Sherman short and tactical version are not more popular. Rich has got ready to go ADG brass and dies. Not really even a wildcat anymore. It does everything better than the PRC and SAUM. Better velocity, better COAL, and supposedly has better barrel life (not sure if i buy the barrel life claim). There are even a few companies doing pre fits for the shermans. What am I missing? Aside from factory ammo options....
6.5SS and SST popularity
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Broz
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I don't personally buy into all those claims. But feel free to prove me wrong.
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A large majority of people getting into longrange shooting are still shooting factory ammo. This is the single biggest reason for the popularity of the PRC cartridges as well as the Creedmoor. All have better options for reloaders. As far as why the SSTs are not more popular in short actions I can't answer. I do believe they are the best options for those who are stuck in the old way of thinking and must have a true short action. Outside of the short action the statement they do everything better is very debatable. This is especial the case with the 6.5 PRC. There are several "factory" rifles capable of shooting under .5 moa out of the box with factory ammo and even better with hand loads. I am seeing near identical performance out of my 7-270wsm and my 7 max. The 7-270wsm is a simple neck up, which I was already running my brass through a mandrel to set neck tension anyway. The max until very recently required fire forming which is not worth it to me. The brass issue is just not as important as some want it to be. These issues are the sole reason I built a 7-270wsm and a 7 max, to test. To me the are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing.
I'm hearing ya both. I definitely understand the reason for the creed and prc popularity. My dad shoots a bergara hmr with factory 147's. It shoots .2's very consistently. But as well as it shoots, I'd still probably never buy one. No matter the price or how well they shoot, at the end of the day I still prefer a custom and handloads. Which i know both of you understand. As far as short vs long action goes, I can definitely see why some people want a short. On my current build, I'm aiming for a dual purposed match and hunting rifle, so I would prefer a short action. If it was a dedicated hunting rifle, I'd opt for the long. I know a lot of people are saying "if you are going to use s long action you might as well use the space and shoot a long action cartridge". I definitely don't buy that argument. It's hard to beat the low recoil/ ballistic combo of a 6.5 prc or saum, so why not throw it into a long action and use the case capacity and seat it to the lands. However, I don't think your going to see many guys running 6.5 prc match guns on a long action. Is it doable? Sure, I've actually run a long action in a match before, but it is somewhat of a disadvantage for sure. This is where I think the ss and sst shine. Even if they only shoot just as good as the prc and saum in terms of velocity, isn't it a big plus to be able to comfortably do it out of a short action?
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I should add that my 6.5 SAUM and my PRC are doing the same speed with 156s
I think we are for the most part on the same page. We just have slightly different needs. If I were shooting prs style matches I would be shooting a short action with a 6gt or maybe a 6 creed for the easy button.
I think we are for the most part on the same page. We just have slightly different needs. If I were shooting prs style matches I would be shooting a short action with a 6gt or maybe a 6 creed for the easy button.
HuntnPack
Member
I think the popularity issue with Sherman Cartridges is evolving somewhat & is being affected by multiple factors. Early on it was a niche market,
that appealed to those willing & able to take the extra steps to acquire reamers, dies, brass, & reload etc. also because of the necessity to fireform non headstamped brass it was not a desirable option to some folks. Now that fully formed ADG headstamped brass is available, as well as reamers, & dies, this will increase the viability to more shooters. Also more gunsmiths are chambering for Sherman cartridges & some offering pre-fit barrel option.
As custom loaded ammunition becomes available, these options make it an even
More viable option to shooters.
Even though factory loaded ammo is not on the shelf, right now that is the case with other cartridges as well, so the gap is narrowed.
as an example: I was in the market to re-barrel my 6.5PRC rifle. Was considering options such as PRC, 6.5 SAUM, or a Sherman. Right now there was no difference in component availability. After sourcing a custom ammunition manufacturer that will load for a Sherman it was my decision to go with the Sherman 6.5 MAX.
For my project the MAX was the optimum to run in my Seekins Element.
My gunsmith currently chambers for it.
So Now a person can if they choose to,
Purchase a barrel or have one rechambered to a Sherman & buy loaded ammunition & go shoot an optimized, efficient, cartridge with headstamped brass, without being a re loader.
Not quite mainstream but........
FUN
that appealed to those willing & able to take the extra steps to acquire reamers, dies, brass, & reload etc. also because of the necessity to fireform non headstamped brass it was not a desirable option to some folks. Now that fully formed ADG headstamped brass is available, as well as reamers, & dies, this will increase the viability to more shooters. Also more gunsmiths are chambering for Sherman cartridges & some offering pre-fit barrel option.
As custom loaded ammunition becomes available, these options make it an even
More viable option to shooters.
Even though factory loaded ammo is not on the shelf, right now that is the case with other cartridges as well, so the gap is narrowed.
as an example: I was in the market to re-barrel my 6.5PRC rifle. Was considering options such as PRC, 6.5 SAUM, or a Sherman. Right now there was no difference in component availability. After sourcing a custom ammunition manufacturer that will load for a Sherman it was my decision to go with the Sherman 6.5 MAX.
For my project the MAX was the optimum to run in my Seekins Element.
My gunsmith currently chambers for it.
So Now a person can if they choose to,
Purchase a barrel or have one rechambered to a Sherman & buy loaded ammunition & go shoot an optimized, efficient, cartridge with headstamped brass, without being a re loader.
Not quite mainstream but........
FUN
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If I had a more disposable income, I'd opt for a 6mm match gun and run a long action PRC or saum in a long action as a dedicated antelope and deer gun. 300 terminator and win mag will always be the go to for elk. But in the end of the day I will only shoot 1 to 3 matches a year and it's hard to build a rifle dedicated for that. Thus, my need for a short actioned magnum 6.5.
BackcountryLOFT
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I was going to buy a PRC but after a of Google time I decided on the 6.5 SST.
One because it looks cool
Two So people can tell me Id be better off with a factory round even though I can't find any factory ammo for my common calibers.
Its faster than a Creed and PRC but supposedly still decent on barrel life and shootability.
Well see how it goes. My first long range gun and first build. Action and barrel should be here in March.
One because it looks cool
Two So people can tell me Id be better off with a factory round even though I can't find any factory ammo for my common calibers.
Its faster than a Creed and PRC but supposedly still decent on barrel life and shootability.
Well see how it goes. My first long range gun and first build. Action and barrel should be here in March.
Crazy how the main thing the prc has going for it is factory ammo. But obviously times like these it is no longer a plus. Prc ammo is basically nonexistent. 6.5sst is readily available though lol. Even dies!
adam32
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But nobody knows the SST so resale in general won't be as good.
Gillettehunter
Member
I have a 6.5 SS. 6 shots at game animals in the last 2 yrs and 6 dead animals. Works for me. I think that you'll like it. One of my current favorite rifles.
Bruce
Bruce
Getting a barrel spun up in 6.5SST. We will see what it N565 and 156's will do. Have everything minus the 156's.... I'll find em though. I've gotten pretty good at this ammo hunting thing lol
Acquiring everything for a lightweight 6.5SS build. I ditched my PRC after beating my head against the wall with sticky/stuck cases. Just need my barrel and stock to get here. Im looking forward to something different and since I hand loaded for the PRC anyway that wasn’t an issue.
I've got everything ordered and I'm just playing the waiting game for my SST. Being able to buy 200 pieces of fully formed ADG head stamped brass definitely played a part in my decision. PBB also made me lean towards the Sherman. When you can more easily get brass, dies, and still buy prefits for a cartridge the is "supposed" to out perform the PRC it was a no brainer. Even if my end velocity is only equal to the prc, I'm not out anything.
Ladd
Well-known member
The 6.5 SST has me interested. I can’t wait to hear more about it and how well it shoots. Especially with the 156 gr Berger EOL. The 3x 6.5 PRC brass I fired yesterday reminded me that the click is alive and well. Been shooting virgin brass for a while.
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I'll do a build thread and load development and post in the new build section as soon as I get all the parts together. Should be the beginning of June...ish. hoping to send the 156 3050 while being able to seat to the lands if need be, and magazine feed in a short action. PRS in the summer and antelope and deer hunter in the fall.
Ladd
Well-known member
Rich, is the 6.5 SST a mag bolt face? Is it the same as the 6.5. PRC? I ask because when my barrel goes on my first 6.5 PRC I should be prepared with a new barrel. The 6.5 SST is an option with the Christensen Arms Ridgeline short action.
Yes magnum bolt face. The SST (Sherman Short Tactical) is based on a SAUM case. Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see that the SST is an option for the factory ridgeline. You have a link?
Ladd
Well-known member
It’s not a factory option. I meant I could order a 6.5 caliber barrel blank and have it ready to thread and chamber.
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Gotcha. In that case make sure to go with the type 2 reamer, which has a .060" longer freebore, as I'm sure you plan on running the 156. PBB does not have the type 2, but they can add the additional freebore to give you the same end product.
Ladd
Well-known member
Good to know. Thanks. What brand carbon wrapped barrel does Preferred offer? How good is Bartlein barrels?
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Preferred does not do carbon. As for Bartlein barrels, they are hard to beat. Their new carbon barrels are looking very promising as far as accuracy goes. There are a couple companies that will make bartlein prefits as well. Check out straight jacket armory. They are out of Evanston. Basically what they do is order blanks from bartlein, proof, etc. And then chamber and thread them specific to your custom action and chambering. I have a carbon bartlein headed my way for a 300wm that I'm building. They will make a bartlein prefit for you in 6.5 SST as well.
Also preferred doesn't make prefits from other manufacturers barrels. They literally make their own barrels in house and chamber them accordingly. Pretty cool operation really.
Ladd
Well-known member
Sorry. The questions should have been asked separately. Preferred Barrel Blanks does offer pre-fit carbon wrapped barrels. According to their website, they are new. They just don't list the brand, so as you said, they must be made in house by PBB. Question 2 was just asking for an opinion if Bartlein was a good barrel maker, not that I was going to have PBB thread and chamber it. I was thinking about buying one somewhere else and have my gunsmith take it from there when I'm ready.