.338 TERMINATOR + P Unveiled!

Broz

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Shawn fire formed some cases for my new LRKM in .338 Terminator + P

Here is the first pic of the new round.

Left is a 260 Rem. The Terminator held 124 gr of H2O. Looks like it will go the distance to me...:cool:

Jeff

DSCN0807_zps733d0d3a.jpg

 

bigngreen

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Ya, that'll get it done. You got to be itching to light something up with that LRKM, I think improved cases look meaner :)
 

Shawn Carlock

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Nothing to wild as far as taper and shoulder angle but we wanted something that would feed and extract easy. Hoping Jef can put up some big numbers with it.
 

Daniel

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Wow! Love it!
 

mtnwrunner

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Man, that is just one sexy cartridge. (and a lot of powder)

Randy
 

Broz

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It is based off the 338 LM Case with a Defensive Edge version of the AI. Sensible for good extraction, but a very nice gain in case volume. Coupled with the addition of the DE +P chamber this should make a very effective 338.

I should have it soon, and will report here with all results as we work it through the paces. I have an Oehler 35 and a Magneto Speed to verify velocities.

Jeff
 

Broz

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Looks good, what are you thinking through the chrony? 3150?

Hard to say at this point. Probably going to test a couple powders and it will be from a 32" tube. Never ran a 32" tube on a 338 and have never owned a +P in anything. So only time will tell. I have the Oehler 35 and a Magneto speed for testing. So I will get 3 readings on each bullet.

Jeff
 

elkhunter338

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That is sexy, can't wait to get range reports.
 

viper338edge

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So is it basicalaly just a lapua mag on steroids ?
 

webs

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So what is the process for making terminator brass?
 

webs

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One time fire forming of 338 LM brass in the Terminator chamber or in a fire forming jig Shawn has chambered with the same reamer.

Jeff

What about running them through dies?
 

.300WinMag

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Cannot wait to hear how it performs for you, Jeff. Looks great and I'm sure you'll put it through it's paces and do some amazing shooting with it.
 

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Jeff, what powder are you guys using for the round and do you perhaps have some load data you can share?
 

Broz

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Jeff, what powder are you guys using for the round and do you perhaps have some load data you can share?

We are using N-570 right now. The charge is 111 gr for mine right now with a CCI 250 and a 300 gr Berger OTM. But it should be noted that this is a custom chambering with a special patented throat design by Defensive Edge. These charges would in no way be possible with out the +P chambering that is available only in new rifles from DE.

These are stiff full house loads and should be approached by starting 10% below.

Jeff
 

elkaholic

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We are using N-570 right now. The charge is 111 gr for mine right now with a CCI 250 and a 300 gr Berger OTM. But it should be noted that this is a custom chambering with a special patented throat design by Defensive Edge. These charges would in no way be possible with out the +P chambering that is available only in new rifles from DE.

These are stiff full house loads and should be approached by starting 10% below.

Jeff

Man, that should should make the elk nervous! It looks a lot like my 30/375 S.I. on steroids
icon11.png
.......Rich
 

Broz

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The first 1005 yard group. Had mirage and a FV wind averaging 7 mph. To save barrel and components while working up drops I only shoot 2 shot groups. When they are this close together that is plenty.

3400 ft lbs at 1000
6778 ft lbs at the muzzle

Jeff

Resampled_2013-07-02_10-59-09_296_zpsfdaa4717.jpg
 

viper338edge

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Dang what is the impact energy at 1005 to do that to your gong? My edge only dents in a small cavity about 1/8 to 1/4" deep at 825 with Berger300gr otms
 

viper338edge

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Dang I might have to save my money and have Shawn build me a barreled action in that caliber for my next long range gun. How are the bullets standing up to the velocity ? Any signs of nose slump?
 

Broz

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Dang I might have to save my money and have Shawn build me a barreled action in that caliber for my next long range gun. How are the bullets standing up to the velocity ? Any signs of nose slump?

The problem with the bullets 3 years ago was only with the Gen 1's and mostly in tight twist. I shot 250 of the first design through a 338 lapua with no issues.

As for these 300 OTM hybrids if they have a problem it has not showed up between me and 2500 yards anyway.

Jeff
 

viper338edge

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Thats cool I was really hesitant to try them in my edge because of all that I had herd about the nose slump , but if they can stand up to being pushed out of your gun at 3600 fps they will have no issue in my edge
 

Eaglet

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The first 1005 yard group. Had mirage and a FV wind averaging 7 mph. To save barrel and components while working up drops I only shoot 2 shot groups. When they are this close together that is plenty.

3400 ft lbs at 1000
6778 ft lbs at the muzzle

Jeff

Resampled_2013-07-02_10-59-09_296_zpsfdaa4717.jpg

Pretty awesome Broz...

Have you ever tried the 300 gr Match Grade Elite Hunter?

Do you know of any one who has?
 
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Shawn fire formed some cases for my new LRKM in .338 Terminator + P

Here is the first pic of the new round.

Left is a 260 Rem. The Terminator held 124 gr of H2O. Looks like it will go the distance to me...:cool:


Jeff

DSCN0807_zps733d0d3a.jpg

Shawn:

Please clarify. Is the cartridge name ".338 Terminator" (as shown on your site) or ".338 Terminator +P" (as shown in the original post)?

Thanks!
 

Daniel

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the +P is in the chamber not a change to the cartridge.

soooo to directly answer the question.... it could be either. would be dependent on the chamber.
 

Shawn Carlock

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The 338 Terminator is available in +P format only at this time. I think we will just be calling it the "338 Terminator" and will only do them with the + P mods.
 

MetalMunger

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Fireforming Question

Shawn fire formed some cases for my new LRKM in .338 Terminator + P

Broz or Shawn,
Do you know what Shawn did to keep the neck from shortening during fireforming?
 
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Broz

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I have fire formed 103 cases so far using a barreled action Shawn set up specifically for the task. We first formed with Unique , corn meal and a wad of paper towel. This got the cases very close. First firing in the rifle sharpened the corners and finished the job. The standard Lapua case trim length is 2.715" The max reamer case length for the Terminator +P is 2.735" with a trim length of 2.725" The cases after fire forming are running just over 2.700" So the plan is to let them grow for a few firings and then even them up with a trim to average case length. That is all the info I have at this time, not sure we did or could do anything to keep the case necks longer. Not sure what new Lapua brass is either but would guess it would be a bit under trim length of 2.715"

Jeff
 

MetalMunger

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Jeff, thanks for the info the case I am working with is a wildcat of my own formed out of 416 Rigby brass. Forming the brass is a painful 12 step process that I am trying to circumvent by fireforming LM brass.
My Numbers are as follows:
Case formed from 416 Rigby brass sized and trimmed to 2.750"
Case Fireformed from PRVI LM brass 2.726"
Unfired PRVI LM brass 2.719"
Fireforming LM brass by putting a bump in the neck to hold case against bolt, 90g H-1000 behind a 300g Berger jammed in the lands.
If I can overcome vBulletin I will post a picture (hints are welcome, I can upload the file BUT vBulletin gives me errors):mad::mad::mad:
My case appears to be very close to your LRKM. the reamer print is dated 1998 so if my experience is any hint you will be extremely happy with the LKRM.
I am wondering what the downside of a short case will be as I do not expect a 0.024" growth, thoughts?

Picture Added:
Left to Right. Case with 300SMK seated, Unfired PRVI 338 LM, Case formed from Norma 416 Rigby brass, PRVI fireformed Case.

338AMK1_2.jpg

Picture added by use of photobucket still can't upload file directly.
 
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Ryan Avery

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MM, when you go to upload an attachment look to the bottom right, basic uploader. This should bypass what's blocking your upload.
 

Broz

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Just started final load and velocity testing with the fully fire formed brass after body sizing and precise shoulder set back with the new custom size die Shawn made me.

Looks like the same load picked up a few FPS. I did initial load work in 80 plus degree temps and was right on 3198 to 3200 fps or so. I just checked velocity after letting the rifle and ammo set outside for a while and cool to the ambient 44 degree temp. First 3 averaged 3210 fps with shot 1 and shot 3 being 3 fps apart.

This is leaving a shadow of an ejector mark you will need a magnifying glass to find. But all 3 the bolt lift was smooth and easy. Looks like a good fall and winter hunting round.

And it also looks like N-570 is temp stable. I am letting the rifle cool outside again along with some of the first rounds that were not fully formed. I will shoot them soon and have a solid comparison for velocity between 80* and 44* with the same ammo and 570.

Jeff
 

msalm

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Broz,
what type of case life do you expect running that load... Just curious as the 338-408 is lagging although I hope at an extended case life over running something smaller harder. I still might put together a 338 Lapua AI w/ a longer throat as I have a Single shot Tac338 sitting in the safe.
 

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So far the primers are tight and consistent. I would hope for 10 firings. I got 15 from a std. 338 LM. But that is just a guess at this point.

Jeff

Hoping to hear a little more on case life and if your velocities have been increasing. Also have you used Reloader 33 in this yet? Do you plan on trying it?
 

Broz

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3 Bulls in the last week with the LRKM, Dead , Dead , Dead. Todays was a decent 6x6 at 600 yards. 300 Berger OTM tight behind the shoulder. .338" in and 2" out taking a rib on both sides. From the spotter view it was a red mist situation. Very impressive.

Jeff
 

bigngreen

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3 Bulls in the last week with the LRKM, Dead , Dead , Dead. Todays was a decent 6x6 at 600 yards. 300 Berger OTM tight behind the shoulder. .338" in and 2" out taking a rib on both sides. From the spotter view it was a red mist situation. Very impressive.

Jeff

Awesome! So your saying it kinda lets the air out of them :)
 

jmden

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3 Bulls in the last week with the LRKM, Dead , Dead , Dead. Todays was a decent 6x6 at 600 yards. 300 Berger OTM tight behind the shoulder. .338" in and 2" out taking a rib on both sides. From the spotter view it was a red mist situation. Very impressive.

Jeff

Pix and story please, Broz! Or did I miss that somewhere else?
 

ELRS

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jmden, I think Jeff is just teasing us a little. Kinda warming up for the ELR Termination of an Elk or two:).
 

jmden

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Nice going! That shot reminded me of the shot on my muley this year--only the neck was available, but instant collapse. Good goin'! Any more like that?
 

Daniel

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Nice going! That shot reminded me of the shot on my muley this year--only the neck was available, but instant collapse. Good goin'! Any more like that?

the camera man had to go back to work haha so nothing yet
 

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