.338 Terminator borescoping...

jmden

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Amateur hour here...first try videoing with this thing. Dirty bore.

Do you guys see anything or can you direct me to look at anything closer? Shawn and I have not been able to figure out why this PROOF barrel seems to put two touching and then throws one .5 MOA or a bit more, this pretty much every 3 shot group. I've tried every .005 off lands from the lands to -.050 with essetially no difference. Load is 104g N570 at about 2970 fps. I've got another barrel waiting at Shawn's for a rebarrel in hopes to get better consistency.

Video posted below again so you can see the entire picture width.

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

jmden

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rfurman24

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I see nothing in the video that would cause it. I would definitely clean that carbon ring. What bullet?
 
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If you do some digging, you’ll find plenty of guys have the same issues with carbon wrapped barrels. I’ve personally seen 3 proofs shoot similar to what you’re showing and they just never were consistent like most people claim. There are also thousands of happy Proof owners too so sometimes you just get one that doesn’t shoot like the others.
 

rfurman24

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I am on my 9th carbon. I have had no problems making them as accurate and consistent(really would not call a gun accurate if not consistent). My Proof 300 PRC was very finicky with the load but it is great after figuring out what it likes. I have had steel barrels be the same way. I don't believe for a second one is more capable or more prone to a bad barrel than the other. Having said that it is possible you got a bad barrel but I seriously doubt it. My current Terminator build will have a Carbon Six and Hart but a one to one is not really a statistical proof of carbon vs steel.
 

jmden

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Gave it a quick cleaning last night. Video afterwards above.

Edit: Carbon ring still there? I'm still trying to understand what I'm looking at.
 
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jmden

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300g Berger EH, 104g N570, 2969fps, -.035.

Edit: That seemed like the most consistent load, but I'm still not happy with it.
 
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jmden

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Certainly open to further load development ideas.

Component list: Manners EH1 Elite Tactical with BDL aluminum bedding block, PROOF 28" barrel, Terminator LA skim bedded, NF NSX 5.5-22x56mm (sent back to factory in July for an issue which was fixed), 2 sets NF ultralight rings, bedded 40 MOA DE rail.
 

rfurman24

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The carbon ring is still there you are looking at it at 21-22seconds. Is this flyer still present at distance? What are your ES and SDs? Does your brass need annealed.
 

jmden

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OK. Thanks Ryan.

The carbon ring is in the throat area, right? There's always going to be some carbon just beyond the case mouth before the throat, right? Which are you talking about. I have got to make sure I get this figured out. I'm still a little confused on it, but thought the ill-fated carbon ring was in the throat. Thoughts on how best to get this out?

I've only had a chance to practice shoot this rifle long 2x this fall, so I don't know that i have enough of a data sample to say that it has that flier at distance or not.

My ES is not as good as I'd like it to be. Sometimes in the low 20s--that's another thing I seem to be fighting. My confidence in the rifle is not what I've had in the past with other customs like my old 338 Allen Xpress and 338 EDGE built by Benchmark. Especially that Allen Xpress, just really was consistent with the Rock Creek barrel and BAT HRPIC action and it liked N570. It'd be unusual to have a group larger than .5 MOA and often in the .2s and routinely in the .1s and that was doing 3030fps with 103g N570.

I've got .002 neck tension. Thinking about trying .003. The brass comes out of the FL die .002 shoulder setback--love those dies. I anneal with a BenchSource every 2 firings. Don't know what I could possibly do to make the brass/rounds more consistent.
 

rfurman24

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Since purchasing a borescope a few years ago I try to get my barrel down to metal when I clean so no I do not have any carbon in the throat. The Teslong has actually made it much easier to ensure the last little bits I was missing are gone. It sounds like you have done your due diligence to get things right. Typically what I see with fliers is incorrect seating depth but it sounds like you have that nailed down. It may just be the barrel.

C4 and Seafoam and some elbow grease seem to work best for the carbon. I would spend some more time seeing if this flier can be seen and long distances before I gave up.
 

jmden

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*/

Look better? Carbon in neck area looks gone or almost gone. Is there still some carbon at the beginning of the throat? Seems like a bit of discoloring the first few thousandths there perhaps?
 

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You’ve got some gnarly cracking going on at the throat, usually it looks like alligator skin past the throat area, but that looks different than I’m used to. Seems like you got the carbon out at the end of the chamber, how’s it look going in to the rifling and the first 6”-8” of the barrel. If you notice there will be darker marks in your rifling then it will clear up to clean and bright metal down your barrel. Those dark marks are hard carbon deposits and need time and multiple cleanings to get out.

How often are you cleaning your rifle and how much are you letting it cool between shots?
 

PAXMAN

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Have you tried different primers? Cci 250 or Fed 215? How confident are you on your powder charge? How fast are you shooting the three shots? That a lot of powder and proof liner isn
 

jmden

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Tonight's video...

Have used/tried both Fed215M and CCI250s. Powder charges are each weighed on a scale tuned by Scott Parker, who is a somewhat well known guy that does that. I typically have shot 3 and let it cool in this rifle, but have pushed this one a bit this late summer early fall trying to find a load, which wasn't happening to my satisfaction and had hunts on the way.
 

Quicksilver

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I would try thorroclean by bullet central. It has started lifting some hard carbon deposits with minimal effort in my norma improved shooting N570. Seems like there’s some darkness to your bore halfway down then towards the end everything get clean and shiny. Work some C4 in there and let it sit overnight, also once this thing is good and clean try sending some more groups down it. But let it cool 5min between each shot and see what happens. I’ve seemed to eliminate some fliers in my grouping by making sure I have a true cold bore watch shot. Also I will carbon clean my barrel every 20 rounds since the N570 seems to build up quick. It’s a quick and one time cleaning that is just maintenance to avoid long and painful cleanings in the future.
 

jmden

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C4 is soaking for a second night and I brought the rifle indoors to room ish temps hoping that will help. I'll try some of the thorroclean.

You guys are still seeing carbon, right? Those 'chunks' missing sure seem suspicious that there's still carbon in there.
 

jmden

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Two more nights of C4 soaking in the barrel did nothing additional from what I can see in the borescope.

What do you guys think that stuff is that's 'flaking' off as seen in the latest video above?
 

PAXMAN

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Where in WA are you located? I am in Bellevue...
 

jmden

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North of Bellingham. About as far away north from Seattle as I can get....
 

jmden

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Ferndale. I shoot at Custer Sportman's Club in front for rifle and in back for pistol. Heading there now. Are you a member there?
 

Quicksilver

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Not currently, I have a private area I can shoot 100yds then usually head up the mountain to go verify. I have targets past a mile to work with. Is this your first outing with it since cleaning?
 

jmden

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Yep. Just had 6 rounds left of my old 3.990/104g N570/CCI 250 load. Shot first 3 over the chrono. 2988, 2925 (?), 2893. (Am planning on sending this Magneto Speed back to the company for a going over in February or so. Been having too many big ES recordings on multiple rifles that seem out uncharacteristic.) Really slow, but had just a bit of a primer crater. The second two were one ragged hole at 104 yds. But shot next 3 without chrono for a 3/4" group. Nearly perfect triangle. Will try a load that worked well for Shawn this summer (105g/4.000/CCI250) and see what that does but was hoping for better. Still have a chance at an antlerless elk until Jan 20 over east so need to have this thing working somewhat reliably.
 

jmden

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borescope after 6 rounds today...

oops--2888 fps (not 2988), 2925 fps, 2893fps

 
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