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  1. #1
    LRO Owner ~ Review Editor ~ Long Range Hunting Specialist Broz's Avatar
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    Stiller 408 extractor issues.

    Posting this in the ELR forum as this is where most of these actions are used. Mine has a .750 bolt, and the traditional M-16 style extractor. I have went trough many. Some are too hard and break at the web (thinnest area right behind the claw) some bend after a few rounds and start slipping over the case rim.

    I have covered all the bases. The load is not over pressure. Primary extraction is a tiny bit firm at times, but not hard and only requires a 2 finger lift. I have spent tons and tons of money on dies to insure the sizing is to a gnats azz.

    Does anyone know where to get stronger extractors or a way to modify and improve with a new extractor?

    Thank you

    Jeff

  2. #2
    If Stiller wont help I would contact PTG. They use to make their bolts and may still make them. I thought all of the 408's were suppose to be .800" bolts but I just measured mine and it's a .750" too. If I'm plagued with that after I build my 375 Cheytac Imp, and no help is found, I will make some thicker ones. There isn't a lot of room left to make them thicker but there is a little and a little stronger material might help as well.

  3. #3
    LRO Owner ~ Review Editor ~ Long Range Hunting Specialist Broz's Avatar
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    Stiller has tried to help and sent me several free of charge. But their / PTG ?? Heat treat has been at both ends of the spectrum. Some have broken on the first extraction like a thin potato chip. Some bend after a dozen rounds or so and as the angle changes they slip up over the case rim leaving it in the chamber. I am going to look for a source for stronger ones. Stronger material, thicker if possible and wider if possible.

    Jeff

  4. #4
    LRO Owner ~ Review Editor ~ Long Range Hunting Specialist Broz's Avatar
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    Well I just got in two more extractors from Stiller. $25 each. I think I will start looking for a new action as I have another barrel already. Then when this barrel goes, just drop in a new barreled action. Hope to find something close to the Stiller 408 1.600" foot print.

    Jeff

  5. #5
    If you could find out the material and if its prehard or hardened after would help, there is a ton of differen't materials that could be a hell of alot better, as that extractor would be super easy to build.
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you
    down to their level and beat you with experience."

  6. #6
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    Jeff

    We have been running two 375 Snipetacs one has the Stiller 1.6 with 900+ rounds and Bertram brass and the other is running Peterson brass we have not seen a problem with either breaking extractors. I don’t know what to tell you.

    It won’t be long and we will messing around with a bunch of JJRock XLs we have.

    Good Luck

    oneshot
    JH
    Oneshot

  7. #7
    LRO Owner ~ Review Editor ~ Long Range Hunting Specialist Broz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Jeff

    We have been running two 375 Snipetacs one has the Stiller 1.6 with 900+ rounds and Bertram brass and the other is running Peterson brass we have not seen a problem with either breaking extractors. I don’t know what to tell you.

    It won’t be long and we will messing around with a bunch of JJRock XLs we have.

    Good Luck

    oneshot
    JH
    The problem is real> Myself and Robert Vestal has talked with them about stronger material, heat treat and beefing them up where at all possible. I should mention that when I started with mine about a year ago Stiller acknowledged a heat treat issue and broken extractors. They sent me all the extractors they had free of charge. I had two break on the first round. Literally like a potato chip and a thin one at that. The rest just bent over time. I have worked, documented case sizes before and after firings, I have spent over $1000 on new die sleeves from Warner that they made from my fired brass. The barrel has been removed and chamber has been polished in different forms 3 times. The load is not over pressure and I have not lost even one primer pocket. Trust me when I say the primary extraction is just a firm two finger lift. Maybe the new extractors I just got are improved or corrected. Time will tell and I hope it fixes it. But the bottom line is the case on a .750 bolt leaves very little room for the extractor. Russ told me that himself. It needs a .800 bolt to use this extractor in my opinion so it could be made .025 thicker in the web. I am looking hard at the Kadex action now.

    Jeff
    Last edited by Broz; 01-12-2019 at 13:29.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
    If you could find out the material and if its prehard or hardened after would help, there is a ton of differen't materials that could be a hell of alot better, as that extractor would be super easy to build.
    As far as I know they are heat treated after. I have been told "we are waiting for them to come back from heat treat"

    I may look for someone to build one at SHOT

    Thanks

  9. #9
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    I have a feeling the M16 extractor is just being pushed too far outside the envelope it was designed to function in.



    Compare the surface area and case taper of a 223, to the 375ELR.


    I'd look at what works in the McMillan Tac-50 rifle, and work down, rather than taking what works in an M16, and going so far up.
    Shane

  10. #10
    LRO Owner ~ Review Editor ~ Long Range Hunting Specialist Broz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMarine View Post
    I have a feeling the M16 extractor is just being pushed too far outside the envelope it was designed to function in.



    Compare the surface area and case taper of a 223, to the 375ELR.


    I'd look at what works in the McMillan Tac-50 rifle, and work down, rather than taking what works in an M16, and going so far up.
    Great point, however I feel the biggest issue comes from the case diameter being so large, that the extractor , in its web area behind the claw, is scary thin. A larger bolt diameter could allow more thickness and possibly a wider extractor too.

    My extraction is not that of a stuck case, just a 2 finger lift. Any extractor should live with this unless it has issues in design or construction.
    Last edited by Broz; 01-13-2019 at 17:04.

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